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Obama to Israel -- Time Is Running Out


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#1    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:19 PM

Bloomberg View said:


When Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visits the White House tomorrow, President Barack Obama will tell him that his country could face a bleak future -- one of international isolation and demographic disaster -- if he refuses to endorse a U.S.-drafted framework agreement for peace with the Palestinians. Obama will warn Netanyahu that time is running out for Israel as a Jewish-majority democracy. And the president will make the case that Netanyahu, alone among Israelis, has the strength and political credibility to lead his people away from the precipice.

In an hourlong interview Thursday in the Oval Office, Obama, borrowing from the Jewish sage Rabbi Hillel, told me that his message to Netanyahu will be this: “If not now, when? And if not you, Mr. Prime Minister, then who?” He then took a sharper tone, saying that if Netanyahu “does not believe that a peace deal with the Palestinians is the right thing to do for Israel, then he needs to articulate an alternative approach." He added, "It’s hard to come up with one that’s plausible.”

Unlike Netanyahu, Obama will not address the annual convention of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobbying group, this week -- the administration is upset with Aipac for, in its view, trying to subvert American-led nuclear negotiations with Iran. In our interview, the president, while broadly supportive of Israel and a close U.S.-Israel relationship, made statements that would be met at an Aipac convention with cold silence.

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#2    and then

and then

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:11 PM

Crunch time for Bibi.  He either stands up for his country or bends over for the embarrassing waste of carbon that is the US president.  If he gives in and allows Obama and his main tool Kerry to do as they wish in the region then war will follow within months, possibly weeks. Israel will have a new PM also. I expect that if the world pushes Israel into a corner and they are attacked Gaza style even after they have given up essentially everything that has been demanded of them, their people are finally going to have enough and simply fight a no holds barred war to establish once and for all their legitimacy. People don't seem to realize that American support for Israel ALSO has been a damper on them from dealing even more harshly with the thugs in the region. If Oby thinks he can run roughshod with impunity he may get schooled soon. It never ceases to amaze me how the world at large seems convinced that a country with such an army and even with nukes for heaven's sake would just meekly agree to suicide.

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#3    Yamato

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:32 PM

Peace with the Palestinians == "Embarrassing waste of carbon."

And I thought Ted Nugent was being derogatory at "sub-human".

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#4    RavenHawk

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:48 PM

Bibi could tell Obama to go play with himself and then cozy up to Putin.  If that were to happen, there would be peace between Israel and Syria and the Palestinian would be SOL and Russia would control the Gulf oil.  The EU and US would be incapable of doing anything but to threaten with nukes.

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#5    and then

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:53 PM

View PostYamato, on 03 March 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Peace with the Palestinians == "Embarrassing waste of carbon."

And I thought Ted Nugent was being derogatory at "sub-human".
Bang that tired old drum - maybe someone will listen.  But if Bibi does bend over for him and the attacks start again in the aftermath, what then Yammy?  What excuse will you make for the noble, peace loving Palestinians then?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#6    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:06 PM

Oh great another "red line" lol


#7    RavenHawk

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 03 March 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Oh great another "red line" lol
When I was real young, I got into my momís cosmetic bag and found her lipstick.  I drew a red line on me, the porcelain, the mirror, the door, walls, towels, and floor.  That only got me in big trouble.

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#8    Yamato

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:16 AM

View Postand then, on 03 March 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Bang that tired old drum - maybe someone will listen.  But if Bibi does bend over for him and the attacks start again in the aftermath, what then Yammy?  What excuse will you make for the noble, peace loving Palestinians then?
The same excuse I give to defend your rights.  You don't have to be perfect or a sinless Jesus Christ to have them.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#9    and then

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:28 AM

View PostYamato, on 18 March 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

The same excuse I give to defend your rights.  You don't have to be perfect or a sinless Jesus Christ to have them.
So your answer is that the Palestinians still have a right to fight the Israelis even if the Israelis reach an agreement and they both sign?  And how is that a just outcome?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#10    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:38 AM

I've said it a couple of times, the first person who fires the first shot after the negotiated ceasefire is the villain.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
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#11    and then

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:15 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 18 March 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

I've said it a couple of times, the first person who fires the first shot after the negotiated ceasefire is the villain.
Perfectly reasonable and just.  I cringe to think of the non answer I'll receive from him though...
As it is I see no way this will go forward.  Abbas is said to have agreed to extend the talks IF Bibi freezes all settlement activity and releases more prisoners.  I think if he tries to accommodate Obama on that then he will lose his government.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#12    Yamato

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:10 AM

View Postand then, on 18 March 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

So your answer is that the Palestinians still have a right to fight the Israelis even if the Israelis reach an agreement and they both sign?  And how is that a just outcome?
Agreement to do what?  Talk?   Talk is cheap when they talk out of one side of their mouth and steal land and resources out the other.  That is not a just outcome.  Talk may precede action but a just outcome like Palestinian statehood is a far cry from what we've ever experienced in this process so far.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#13    Yamato

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:12 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 18 March 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

I've said it a couple of times, the first person who fires the first shot after the negotiated ceasefire is the villain.
Which we'll almost certainly have no way of verifying independently and in a timely enough fashion beyond what selective information we're provided with by who knows who.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#14    RavenHawk

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:57 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 18 March 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

I've said it a couple of times, the first person who fires the first shot after the negotiated ceasefire is the villain.
When you have two opposing forces facing each other, firing the first shot is not an indication of villainy.  If England and France had fired the first shot during the Phony War, WWII would have never occurred.  Israel struck first in í67 and she was not wiped out.  It has gone beyond good vs bad.  ďCeasefireĒ is but an arbitrary temporary stoppage to the shooting.  The only thing that matters is who is left standing.  There are two ways to accomplish that.  One side can leave the battlefield or one side can be decimated.  Once engaged, there can only be one of those two outcomes or the standoff continues.  But itís usually best for it to solve itself or you end up making things worse unless you can bring overwhelming force which is usually more violent.  And if itís not more violent then you just make things worse even more.

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#15    and then

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:11 PM

View PostYamato, on 18 March 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

Which we'll almost certainly have no way of verifying independently and in a timely enough fashion beyond what selective information we're provided with by who knows who.
IOW you will not answer the question.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.




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