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Israel ends ultra-Orthodox ...


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#1    keithisco

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:33 PM

Right or Wrong? Fundamentalists have long stoked the fires of hatred in the ME, without putting themselves in the front line.

Quote:

Israel's parliament has approved legislation that will end exemptions from military service for ultra-Orthodox Jewish seminary students.
The bill was passed by 65 votes to one, and an amendment allowing civilian national service by 67 to one.

Opposition parties, including Labour, boycotted the votes because of what they called unfair and undemocratic dealing within the governing coalition.

Secular Israelis had complained that the exemptions were unfair.

"The change begins tomorrow morning and it is expected to transform the face of Israeli society unrecognisably," said Yaakov Peri of Yesh Atid, a party in the governing coalition that led the push for the new legislation

LINK (courtesy BBC): http://www.bbc.com/n...e-east-26542316


#2    and then

and then

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:47 PM

This same group seems to be allowed generous welfare subsidies as well.  I understand that the original idea was noble, similar to our conscientious objectors but the numbers simply exploded over time.  Such a large number of citizens cannot be exempted fairly from such an important government function IMO.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...
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#3    third_eye

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:00 PM

more fanatics into the mix .... great idea ...

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#4    and then

and then

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:12 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 12 March 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

more fanatics into the mix .... great idea ...

~
Actually I think it might be just the opposite.  The orthodox tend toward being almost a fifth column in their hatred toward the secular government.  If I were a military commander I'd be stressed over having to watch them and wonder if they might create problems in the units.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#5    third_eye

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

View Postand then, on 12 March 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Actually I think it might be just the opposite.  The orthodox tend toward being almost a fifth column in their hatred toward the secular government.  If I were a military commander I'd be stressed over having to watch them and wonder if they might create problems in the units.

It just smells of bad news to me bud ...

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#6    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:31 PM

Well, I should think so. They're the kind that are almost always the most bloodthirsty (fundamentalists of any religion, not just Jewish), but to expect to be exempt from military service seems a bit of a liberty.

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#7    Ashotep

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:01 PM

If they are going to stir things up they should have to face the results of it along with everyone else.


#8    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:30 PM

I always wondered why they were exempt, I just thought it was because they were pacifistic by doctrine.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
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#9    and then

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:25 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 12 March 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

I always wondered why they were exempt, I just thought it was because they were pacifistic by doctrine.
I'm not sure about that but I do recall that originally the numbers of those who were full time religious studies for a vocation were much smaller.  It has just gotten out of hand and this group also seems to hate the very state they live off of.  Makes one wonder how such citizens would be treated in non democratic countries.  :whistle:

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#10    Yamato

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:01 AM

Exemptions for "Gifted Scholars" will still be made.  So if you want to devote your life to the study of the Jewish religion without serving in the IDF, you have to be exceptional at it.

Zionists 1, Jews 0

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
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#11    and then

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:46 PM

View PostYamato, on 13 March 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

Exemptions for "Gifted Scholars" will still be made.  So if you want to devote your life to the study of the Jewish religion without serving in the IDF, you have to be exceptional at it.

Zionists 1, Jews 0
Or maybe the rest of Israeli society got tired of being spit on while paying for the livelihood of these people?  What is so heinous about that Yam?
And, lest we misunderstand, the period of service is 2 years.  How great an imposition is that for a person who lives in freedom?  Especially when they don't even have to work to live once it's over?

Edited by and then, 13 March 2014 - 01:48 PM.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#12    Yamato

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:00 AM

View Postand then, on 13 March 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Or maybe the rest of Israeli society got tired of being spit on while paying for the livelihood of these people?  What is so heinous about that Yam?
And, lest we misunderstand, the period of service is 2 years.  How great an imposition is that for a person who lives in freedom?  Especially when they don't even have to work to live once it's over?
It was already heinous, I didn't need to add this to it.  

It was also the most militarized nation on the planet.  How much is too much?  Where does your support for the Israeli government's policies end?   What would they have to do to lose your faith?   I think that ending the oppression of Palestinians is the true answer.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#13    and then

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 01:26 AM

View PostYamato, on 14 March 2014 - 12:00 AM, said:

It was already heinous, I didn't need to add this to it.  

It was also the most militarized nation on the planet.  How much is too much?  Where does your support for the Israeli government's policies end?   What would they have to do to lose your faith?   I think that ending the oppression of Palestinians is the true answer.
Or  here's something novel - you could answer a question?  You should really try it sometime - it gives the impression of dialogue and sanity ;)

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#14    Yamato

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:18 AM

What question do you want me to answer, 'and then'?

Quote

How great an imposition is that for a person who lives in freedom?
You have to ask that person.

Quote

  Especially when they don't even have to work to live once it's over?
Why is not having to work to live a good thing?    Is that what Judaism teaches?

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#15    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:26 AM

View PostYamato, on 14 March 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:


Why is not having to work to live a good thing? Is that what Judaism teaches?
I'm sure it's what most people would aspire to. You can't blame them for knowing when they're on to a good thing. B)

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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