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John Kerry: "The US will not recognize


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#1    Jeremiah65

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:01 PM

Ok, this sounds more and more like a poorly written script for a bad movie...





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#2    acidhead

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:04 PM

The Canadian GOV has said the same.  But they don't speak for me.  If that's what they choose so be it... whom am I to recognize what they choose?

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#3    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:08 PM

How DARE a country use the laws of that country to do something that America doesn't approve of!

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#4    and then

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:22 PM

Ukraine is about 40% Russian speaking and Russia has decided they will move in, ostensibly to protect those Russian speakers.  How many Russian speakers in each of the former Soviet republics?  At what point do any of those sovereign countries have a right to say we do not want Russia to put their noses into our business?  Or is it just a fait accompli that Russia will select which areas it wants and simply move in to consolidate without the rest of the world raising a voice, let alone a finger?  But hey, as long as it's not America pushing them around then I guess it's acceptable, huh?  The Ukrainians and all their former Soviet neighbors are learning that they are effectively on their own and they have to decide if they want to fight for their freedom or just be folded back without a whimper.  It will be interesting to see what they choose.

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#5    OverSword

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:50 PM

It seems that Iraq did a similar thing in Kuwait a few years ago.  What was the international response to that?

Very poor chioce for Russia IMO.

Edited by OverSword, 14 March 2014 - 11:51 PM.


#6    spud the mackem

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:54 PM

View Postand then, on 14 March 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

Ukraine is about 40% Russian speaking and Russia has decided they will move in, ostensibly to protect those Russian speakers.  How many Russian speakers in each of the former Soviet republics?  At what point do any of those sovereign countries have a right to say we do not want Russia to put their noses into our business?  Or is it just a fait accompli that Russia will select which areas it wants and simply move in to consolidate without the rest of the world raising a voice, let alone a finger?  But hey, as long as it's not America pushing them around then I guess it's acceptable, huh?  The Ukrainians and all their former Soviet neighbors are learning that they are effectively on their own and they have to decide if they want to fight for their freedom or just be folded back without a whimper.  It will be interesting to see what they choose.
  Russia is in the Crimea to protect its huge Navy base there and no matter what is said by the rest of the world ,they aint gonna move out.I just hope these Politicians don't take it into their heads to do something stupid and escalate a nasty situation.The Ukranians have to sort this out and come to some agreement with Joe,sorry Vlad.

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#7    Jeremiah65

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:04 AM

Well Kuwait didn't get a vote in the invasion by Iraq.  The point being that the people of the Crimea are going to vote to secede from Ukraine and join Russia.  I think that is how things are supposed to work...let the people decide.  I'm not sure what will be the outcome for the minority though.  Would they have to relocate if they didn't want Russian leadership?  It's complicated for sure.

But comparing it to Iraq and Kuwait is not quite parallel...

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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#8    Ashotep

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:08 AM

The Ukrainians have asked for military aid in the form of jet fuel, ammunition, etc and I think we should give it to them.  The Russians aren't going to be satisfied until they have all of Ukraine under their control then they will be looking at other countries in the area.  Sanctions aren't going to work with Putin, he will let his people starve before he gives in and if they complain about it they will be locked up or killed.  I think Putin wants to rebuild the old Soviet Union, remember he is ex KGB.

This so called election for Crimea to rejoin Russia is a joke, no one will be allowed to vote no.


#9    and then

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:18 AM

View Postspud the mackem, on 14 March 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

Russia is in the Crimea to protect its huge Navy base there and no matter what is said by the rest of the world ,they aint gonna move out.I just hope these Politicians don't take it into their heads to do something stupid and escalate a nasty situation.The Ukranians have to sort this out and come to some agreement with Joe,sorry Vlad.
I understand the seriousness of this particular situation for Putin and I imagine Ukraine better get ready to be steamrolled.  The problem for me is that if this precedent is set then where, exactly does the world draw a line in the future?  The naval base is worth a lot of blood and treasure to Russia and so it will not be allowed to become controlled by western interests - I agree.  But if Russia attempts to take over half the country then a war will almost certainly erupt and even though Russian forces are far superior, we know what insurgencies can cost.  A novel idea would have been to quietly negotiate and be willing to actually give a little autonomy rather than try to purchase a leader like you would a whore.

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#10    acidhead

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:37 AM

View PostAshotep, on 15 March 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

The Ukrainians have asked for military aid in the form of jet fuel, ammunition, etc and I think we should give it to them.  The Russians aren't going to be satisfied until they have all of Ukraine under their control then they will be looking at other countries in the area.  Sanctions aren't going to work with Putin, he will let his people starve before he gives in and if they complain about it they will be locked up or killed.  I think Putin wants to rebuild the old Soviet Union, remember he is ex KGB.

This so called election for Crimea to rejoin Russia is a joke, no one will be allowed to vote no.

How do you know so much?

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#11    Thorvir Hrothgaard

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:51 AM

John Kerry: US traitor and the poster boy for how to be a terrible politician.

I promised to stay out of the currents events and politics sections, but I couldn't help this one.

Never take Kerry for his word.  For anything.  If he says the sky is blue, it is most certainly not blue then.

And as for Russia's aggression....they do have to be stopped before the rest of the Ukraine falls, followed by the rest of Eastern Europe.  I'm just not convinced it should be the US that does it this time.  Though if specifically asked to help, we should.  However, with Obama in charge, count on us not doing the right thing--either on time, or ever.

Edited by Hida Akechi, 15 March 2014 - 01:33 AM.

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#12    and then

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 02:04 AM

I just watched a YouTube vid of the Russian UN ambassador explaining it all away.  Then Lavrov in a somewhat conciliatory manner saying hate it for ya, we are going NOWHERE.  
I think the action -  the flash point will be in southern Ukraine.  The water, fuel and electricity as well as comms all go through a narrow area and onto the peninsula.  After the vote I suspect Russian troops will either fly into this area or even drop airborne assault troops to secure this infrastructure.  If Ukraine keeps it's promise to withold all these services then Crimea will be crippled for months.  Russia isn't going to allow it.  If it comes to that I hope the Ukrainians sabotage the infrastructure and show Moscow up front that they are in for a lengthy insurgency unless they NEGOTIATE with a willingness to actually compromise on issues of sovereignty while guaranteeing use of the bases they must have.

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#13    Stellar

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 02:51 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 14 March 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

How DARE a country use the laws of that country to do something that America doesn't approve of!

Isn't that a little misleading? It's not the Ukraine voting on a referendum, its occupied Crimea. I'm sure if Iraq had voted to become part of the US while the US troops were there, people would be screaming off the top of their lungs that its illegal and immoral.

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#14    spud the mackem

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:23 AM


   This is the same kind of situation when the Chinese went into Tibet, and the Dalai Llama had to exit quickly,everyone moaned and groaned and made threats and sanctions but as far as I am aware the Chinese are still there.So Russia will just smile and carry on with  their excuses of protecting the Russian population in Crimea,What I would like to know is what or who they are protecting them from as they are capable of looking after themselves.Putin knows that the West wont take this up to War level so the Ukranians will have to come to a compromise.

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#15    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 10:01 AM

View PostStellar, on 15 March 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

Isn't that a little misleading? It's not the Ukraine voting on a referendum, its occupied Crimea. I'm sure if Iraq had voted to become part of the US while the US troops were there, people would be screaming off the top of their lungs that its illegal and immoral.
No, it's a state within the Ukraine, using Ukrainian law (or so I've read online) voting on whether or not to stay I'm the Ukraine.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.




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