Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 2 votes

Why can't some people see ghosts?


  • Please log in to reply
507 replies to this topic

#31    Draco20

Draco20

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,337 posts
  • Joined:02 Jun 2013

Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:41 PM

View PostHideout, on 22 March 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

I'm totally open to the idea that ghosts might exist. If you're willing to put forth some evidence, I'd be happy to look at it. Yes, many scientific discoveries seemed impossible at one point, and then evidence was discovered. Until evidence is put forward for the paranormal there is no reason to believe in it. The entire paranormal field is based on arguments from ignorance. You can put quotes around the terms rational and intellectual all you want, it doesn't make your argument any more valid.

I think it is a bit more complicated than that to say the least. You know, all current scientific models stand on materialist. Humans are nothing more than complex molecules assemblage and your own personality is basically neurons and synapses transmiting informations by electro-chemical signallings. According to materialistic neuroscience, we are basically ''computers''.

You see where the issue lies? Souls, Ghosts, Spirits, ESP ect. are fundamentally impossible in this view point in which mainstream science stands. It will take much more than ''evidence'' but a massive shift on how reality can actually be perceived through the magnifying glass of science.

I would rather say that the entire paranormal field is based on interpretations. A religious person experiencing what can be considered ''paranormal'' would interpret it according to the Bible, the Quran ect. A spiritist would claim it might be the ''ghost'' of a deceased one and so on.

But if we can eliminiate basic natural causes, and distinguish the experience itself from the interpretation which is no easy feat in many cases, than one may find similarities that transcend cultures, beliefs and interpretations.

Edited by sam_comm, 22 March 2014 - 03:58 PM.


#32    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,508 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:46 PM

Seeing is believing and believing alows some to see what they believe, even if what they see is in there head.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#33    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,568 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

View Postsam_comm, on 22 March 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

You see where the issue lies? Souls, Ghosts, Spirits, ESP ect are fundamentally impossible in this view point in which mainstream science stands. It will take much more than ''evidence'' but a massive shift in how reality can actually be perceived.
Well no they aren't impossible, there is just no detection of them. Everyone could suddenly accept they exist tomorrow but how do you verify these phenomena?


#34    Draco20

Draco20

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,337 posts
  • Joined:02 Jun 2013

Posted 22 March 2014 - 04:07 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 22 March 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Well no they aren't impossible, there is just no detection of them. Everyone could suddenly accept they exist tomorrow but how do you verify these phenomena?

No material detection of them providing solid proofs, true enough.

I seriously doubt your assumption that everyone could suddenly accept the legitimacy of these phenomenon, tomorrow. Many skeptical scientists and organisations are dimissing and arguing all their career against spirtiuality and the possiblity that ''paranormal'' may draw it's source from a legitimate phenomenon. So, asking them to radically change their point of views, no less than their conception of reality itself and assuming that your ''evidence'' would go unchallenged is actually a bit simplistic.

I like the exemple of Multiverses. Some scientists reductionist complain that we shouldn't focus on these ideas since there is perhaps no way that we could ever prove them. Yet, many theoritical physcists are fascinated by these possible realities emerging from mathematical frameworks and will simply not give it up. It's a fascinating debate about where the boundaries of science should be.

Edited by sam_comm, 22 March 2014 - 04:17 PM.


#35    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,568 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 22 March 2014 - 04:27 PM

View Postsam_comm, on 22 March 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

No material detection of them with solid proofs, true enough.
And how would non-material detection work?
I'm not sure what you mean by solid proofs.

Quote

I seriously doubt your assumption that everyone could suddenly accept the legitimacy of these phenomenon, tomorrow. Many skeptical scientists and organisations have dimissed and argued all their career against spirtiuality and the possiblity that ''paranormal'' may draw it's source from a legitimate phenomenon. So, asking them to radically change their point of views, their conception of reality and assuming that your ''evidence'' would go unchallenged is actually a bit simplistic.
It was hypothetical. If everyone suddenly accepted them, how would they go about detecting them? Changing your view doesn't give you powers to magically detect the undetectable.

Quote

I like the exemple of Multiverses. Some scientists reductionist complain that we shouldn't focus on these models since there is probably no way that we could ever prove them. Yet, many theoritical physcists are fascinated by these possible realities emerging from mathematical frameworks and will simply not give it up.
Which leads to further study and some have devised methods in which these multiverses maybe detected.
Unlike multiverses, the phenomena you listed supposedly occurs in our universe.


#36    Hideout

Hideout

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 383 posts
  • Joined:15 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MN

  • A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
    -Albert Einstein

Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:14 PM

View Postsam_comm, on 22 March 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

I think it is a bit more complicated than that to say the least. You know, all current scientific models stand on materialist. Humans are nothing more than complex molecules assemblage and your own personality is basically neurons and synapses transmiting informations by electro-chemical signallings. According to materialistic neuroscience, we are basically ''computers''.

You see where the issue lies? Souls, Ghosts, Spirits, ESP ect. are fundamentally impossible in this view point in which mainstream science stands. It will take much more than ''evidence'' but a massive shift on how reality can actually be perceived through the magnifying glass of science.
Well, it would take evidence that something other than "material" exists. If it exists, it has some effect on the world. If it has some effect on the world, it can be measured.


Quote

I would rather say that the entire paranormal field is based on interpretations. A religious person experiencing what can be considered ''paranormal'' would interpret it according to the Bible, the Quran ect. A spiritist would claim it might be the ''ghost'' of a deceased one and so on.
Which is essentially an argument from ignorance. I don't know what this was, therefore it was this. That is textbook argument from ignorance. There is no reason to interpret it from any standpoint, it should be investigated not pushed into a pre-existing belief system.

Quote

But if we can eliminiate basic natural causes, and distinguish the experience itself from the interpretation which is no easy feat in many cases, than one may find similarities that transcend cultures, beliefs and interpretations.
I completely agree. Unfortunately, that has never happened.

To those who do not know mathematics it is difficult to get across a real feeling as to the beauty, the deepest beauty, of nature ... If you want to learn about nature, to appreciate nature, it is necessary to understand the language that she speaks in.
--Richard Feynman

#37    coldethyl

coldethyl

    ~☆~Public Animal #9~☆~

  • Member
  • 16,381 posts
  • Joined:22 Mar 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:~*★*~In the Breeze~*★*~

  • ~*★*~Engine of destruction~*★*~

Posted 22 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

The OP feels trollish to me.  Just my opinion.  Another 'you can't see because you don't have my special magical powers' so lets fight about it thread.


#38    Skep B

Skep B

    Savant of Depravity

  • Member
  • 5,563 posts
  • Joined:02 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Duuuuuuuuuuuude

Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:38 PM

View Postcoldethyl, on 22 March 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

The OP feels trollish to me.  Just my opinion.  Another 'you can't see because you don't have my special magical powers' so lets fight about it thread.

Yeah you're probably right.

and I fell into it in the first page.

i am shame faced

When you know what a man loves, you know what can kill him


#39    Sakari

Sakari

    Rob Lester

  • Member
  • 14,448 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Safford, Arizona...My heart and soul are still on the Oregon Coast.

  • Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Posted 23 March 2014 - 01:08 AM

Same reason no cameras have seen them.

It is easier to answer why only a small minority of people thought they saw a ghost.

Our Wolf's Memorial Page

http://petsupports.com/a04/sakari.htm


#40    Hvashi

Hvashi

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Joined:03 Mar 2014

Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:50 AM

It's just that most people who are self-described as logical /rational and the like do seem to hurl harsh judgments upon those who have experienced paranormal or inexplicable events. I find that to be paradoxical...how can one describe oneself as pro-science and pro-investigation yet flat out shuts down or ridicules even harmless discussion about the unexplained? No one, not even the self-described logical individuals, knows absolutely everything in the universe. Therefore,  it's arrogant to presume that one can say a firm "yes" or "no" about anything in existence.

Back on topic, I think some people are more sensitive to light and sound frequencies as well as electromagnetism, which may make them more likely to experience what can be described as ghostly encounters or eerie sensations.


#41    Hvashi

Hvashi

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Joined:03 Mar 2014

Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:57 AM

No, *sigh*, I'm not a troll. Also, I don't presume to have any magical abilities etc (who does?). I was merely wondering why some people perceive the paranormal and some do not....




#42    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 17,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:07 AM

I think most of the paranormal things we see are illusions, a few are delusions.


#43    Dontlisten2me

Dontlisten2me

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts
  • Joined:04 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:14 AM

Most people can't see ghosts because there brains and eyes won't let them. If everyone saw ghosts the jokes would be over. It would become disinteresting. If everyone did the World would change and more then half the population wouldn't know how to deal with it now.


#44    Dontlisten2me

Dontlisten2me

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts
  • Joined:04 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:27 AM

You can't fight ghosts.  SWAT team can't beat em'. There is no stabbing and shooting.  Boring. Sceaw off ghosts.


#45    toast

toast

    President of the Galaxy

  • Member
  • 5,407 posts
  • Joined:24 Nov 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamburg/Germany

  • Let there be Ziggy

Posted 24 March 2014 - 08:30 AM

View PostHvashi, on 24 March 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

Back on topic, I think some people are more sensitive to light and sound frequencies as well as electromagnetism,
which may make them more likely to experience what can be described as ghostly encounters or eerie sensations.

There is no scientific confirmation that the human body does have a sensory organ or a sense for electromagnetism,
so it`s useless to speculate about if some ppl are "more sensitive" to electromagnetism than others. As there is no
need for humans to have such sense, there isn`t one as we are able to orientate by visual facts compared with our
ability to think rational and deductive.

Edited by toast, 24 March 2014 - 08:31 AM.

“For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.”  - Hunter S. Thompson -
"Very funny, Scotty, now beam down my trousers!" - James T. Kirk -
"I think enormous harm is done by religion – not just in the name of religion, but actually by religion." - Steven Weinberg -  
"I am discounting the reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?" - Stephen Hawking -




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users