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Insignificance = Sin?


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#1    ambelamba

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:17 AM

I only saw the first episode of new Cosmos on Fox. I was busy fixing my PC made out of old spare parts and didn't have time to watch yesterday's episode. Sad.

But the first episode was powerful enough to think on some deep thing. The simple demonstration of the size of universe is truly a humble experience. Size-wise, we are insignificant, and this doesn't sit well with many people out there.

Well, it really didn't matter where I came from. Our cosmology was rather incompatible with Judeo-Christian one, philosophically speaking. Being cosmically insignificant didn't mean really negative to my ancestors. So we are nothing compared to the entire universe. So what? Nobody's condemning you but yourself for being insignificant. Same thing with evolution. You have to have different perspective and mindset to see evolution without contempt. So we came from...these tiny rodents that had to run away from Velociraptors. Is that...bad? Why can't we think that natural evolution is a spiritually humbling idea that makes us have more respect on nature and cosmos?

If the contempt on evolution partly came from the contempt on the concept of humility toward nature, my remaining affection for America as a military veteran will die off. We were never known for humility, which is a major weakness because hubris is the key to self destruction.


#2    davros of skaro

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:26 AM

In my opinion some people are wired to worship as a form of OCD.The Bible locks on this wiring.

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https://m.youtube.co...h?v=79Lmmy2jfeo <-- "Mythical Jesus" Dr. Carrier
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IybD2xzkhtc <-- "Mythical Moses" Dr. Price (starts@10:20)
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=272571 <-- Science Behind Irrational Beliefs
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#3    and then

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:30 AM

View Postambelamba, on 25 March 2014 - 02:17 AM, said:

I only saw the first episode of new Cosmos on Fox. I was busy fixing my PC made out of old spare parts and didn't have time to watch yesterday's episode. Sad.

But the first episode was powerful enough to think on some deep thing. The simple demonstration of the size of universe is truly a humble experience. Size-wise, we are insignificant, and this doesn't sit well with many people out there.

Well, it really didn't matter where I came from. Our cosmology was rather incompatible with Judeo-Christian one, philosophically speaking. Being cosmically insignificant didn't mean really negative to my ancestors. So we are nothing compared to the entire universe. So what? Nobody's condemning you but yourself for being insignificant. Same thing with evolution. You have to have different perspective and mindset to see evolution without contempt. So we came from...these tiny rodents that had to run away from Velociraptors. Is that...bad? Why can't we think that natural evolution is a spiritually humbling idea that makes us have more respect on nature and cosmos?

If the contempt on evolution partly came from the contempt on the concept of humility toward nature, my remaining affection for America as a military veteran will die off. We were never known for humility, which is a major weakness because hubris is the key to self destruction.
Pride definitely goes before destruction.  I think you are falsely conflating size or scale with significance though.  I tend to think of the very infinity of scale to increase, rather than diminish the importance of our existence.  We were made to be self aware - in the image of our creator.  We have no idea what the next step of our evolution is to be.  Who is to say that all that vast expanse is not in need of "shepherds" :)

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#4    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:49 AM

"So we came from...these tiny rodents that had to run away from Velociraptors. Is that...bad? Why can't we think that natural evolution is a spiritually humbling idea that makes us have more respect on nature and cosmos?"

YES!!!!!!!!

Whe I read this bit, I just could not agree more, and no matter how many times I have heard something along those line, the way you said it spoke loud to me.

Yes, we came from nature, so why are we so determine to destroy it. You can tell me that not everyones like that blah blah, but the stone cold truth is everybody is contributing EVEN me, to this. Consumerism is at its worst. If not everybody was like this, THEN, we would see such abuse. So this only indicates that the majority are causing harm. Aware or not.

The budget of war is still all time highs, AND THERE HASNT BEEN A WAR IN DECADES well there has been, but again mainly for the sake of power and money (reasources) petty wars.

After all this, ME too am a culpit. however in the last 3 to 4 years of my philsophical views and lifestyle, I have stopped by meat from supermarkets (i get it from a mate that hunts - Which I want to learn to do myself - some people may not understand the difference here) I have stopped using plastic bags. I am growing my own veggies. I do not use my vechile for a trip to the shop. Many more thing.
eventually I want to be completely self efficent. and for my output to not outweight my input to this earth

Problem is, the last 150 years have developed a world like this. it will take longer to change.

Watch this space

#5    Donnie Darko

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:52 AM

View Postdavros of skaro, on 25 March 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

In my opinion some people are wired to worship as a form of OCD.The Bible locks on this wiring.

In my opinion, some people cannot come to terms with the existence of a higher power.  If they can't get all the answers according to their perceptions, then it simply doesn't exist in their closed off and sometimes arrogant minds.  Other times, I think people will just refuse it outright regardless, even if God puts the evidence right in front of them.


#6    Likely Guy

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:01 AM

In my opinion the 'higher power' is with inside.

It has nothing to do with scriptures. Each and everyone of us knows, innately what is right or wrong. I don't need to read a passage from a book to tell me what I 'should' do.

That is simply self evident.

All would do well to research the 'golden rule' which is a univeral truth that stretches across and includes every tenet of faith, even those of no faith. It includes people like me,

Edit: Maybe if humankind embaced the 'Golden Rule' originally, there might not be a reason for religion.

Edited by Likely Guy, 25 March 2014 - 05:15 AM.


#7    and then

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:20 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 25 March 2014 - 05:01 AM, said:

In my opinion the 'higher power' is with inside.

It has nothing to do with scriptures. Each and everyone of us knows, innately what is right or wrong. I don't need to read a passage from a book to tell me what I 'should' do.

That is simply self evident.

All would do well to research the 'golden rule' which is a univeral truth that stretches across and includes every tenet of faith, even those of no faith. It includes people like me,

Edit: Maybe if humankind embaced the 'Golden Rule' originally, there might not be a reason for religion.
Maybe, LG, but it just isn't in our human nature to do so.  We have certainly evolved socially and are generally not as brutal as our ancestors but I think that is mostly down to having food and shelter and goods enough to quiet those drives.  Take that away and the brutality will return in a generation.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#8    davros of skaro

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:22 AM

View PostLaurent, on 25 March 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

In my opinion, some people cannot come to terms with the existence of a higher power.  If they can't get all the answers according to their perceptions, then it simply doesn't exist in their closed off and sometimes arrogant minds.  Other times, I think people will just refuse it outright regardless, even if God puts the evidence right in front of them.

So I should believe because I see a pretty sunset?

Should I open my mind, and humble my self to the pretty sunset?

Should I then feel special because the pretty sunset has a plan for me for believing in it?

Posted Image
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=79Lmmy2jfeo <-- "Mythical Jesus" Dr. Carrier
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IybD2xzkhtc <-- "Mythical Moses" Dr. Price (starts@10:20)
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=272571 <-- Science Behind Irrational Beliefs
Inanna the Goddess of love was crucified, then after 3 days/nights was resurrected. An over 3,000 yo Tablet saying this is proof of it's truth. Praise Jesus Serotonin Christ!

#9    Likely Guy

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:31 AM

View Postand then, on 25 March 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

Maybe, LG, but it just isn't in our human nature to do so.  We have certainly evolved socially and are generally not as brutal as our ancestors but I think that is mostly down to having food and shelter and goods enough to quiet those drives.  Take that away and the brutality will return in a generation.

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you', I cannot understand why that concept does not transcend all others.

Edit: In many times of strife, this behaviour is self evident.

Re-edit; i.e.: The concept of 'self sacrifice'.

Edited by Likely Guy, 25 March 2014 - 05:36 AM.


#10    Donnie Darko

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:32 AM

I just gave you my opinion as you gave us yours, relax.  The pretty sunset is not God technically speaking, he did create it though. :tu:

Edited by Laurent, 25 March 2014 - 05:32 AM.


#11    and then

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:33 AM

View Postdavros of skaro, on 25 March 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

So I should believe because I see a pretty sunset?

Should I open my mind, and humble my self to the pretty sunset?

Should I then feel special because the pretty sunset has a plan for me for believing in it?
Is it your belief that everything in the universe came from nothing and is going nowhere?  That all of it is random and no creative intelligence brought it into being?  And if that is the case then isn't that a kind of faith also?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#12    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:39 AM

View Postand then, on 25 March 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

Is it your belief that everything in the universe came from nothing and is going nowhere?  That all of it is random and no creative intelligence brought it into being?  And if that is the case then isn't that a kind of faith also?
It is not a kind of faith.  It is acceptance of reality regardless of what we wish were the case.

Personally I find the presence of minds at least on the earth the one thing that doesn't fit this scenario, but there was no creator.  We evolved as biological beings.


#13    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:41 AM

View PostLaurent, on 25 March 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

I just gave you my opinion as you gave us yours, relax.  The pretty sunset is not God technically speaking, he did create it though. :tu:
God created the pretty sunset.  How about the one's that aren't so pretty?  Think a little on the subject.  It does no good to credit God for everything you like and not for the less pleasant things.


#14    Donnie Darko

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:46 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 25 March 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

God created the pretty sunset.  How about the one's that aren't so pretty?  Think a little on the subject.  It does no good to credit God for everything you like and not for the less pleasant things.

I understand what you're saying.  It is tricky, absolutely.  I believe that we come from God and that us human beings are composed of many layers, I naturally assume God is too.  After all, we are his children, rebellious or not.

Anyway, I appreciate your input, but I will not further discuss this, because I'm not going to change anyone's mind and same here.  Peace.

Edited by Laurent, 25 March 2014 - 05:47 AM.


#15    Likely Guy

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:49 AM

It's one thing to create the pretty sunset. I'm not so sure that God created the appreciative audience.





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