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World Divided over Bush Victory


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#31    vimjams

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 07:02 AM


QUOTE
Now anybody who disagrees is a "Nazi",how typical.


You are another 'yank' who cannot read very well I see. I don't think I have implied that to 'disagree' is to be a Nazi.

You made the comment "Heil der Fuhrer"...What do you think that means in English? When you find that out...Compare it to the rhetoric being blasted out here concerning Bush.

Same thing mate..."Heil der Fuhrer".
No matter where he's gonna take you...It's rampant and rabid leader worship.

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#32    stillcrazy

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 09:06 AM

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BTW,what "defeat" of the US Army are you refering too anyway?We have never surredered to anybody in our 228 year history.


We have never surrendered But we sure have left a few in a hell of a hurry.

Viet Nam, when we knew for ten+ years was un-winnable.

Korea, a tie after a whole lot of folks got killed on both sides. And 50 years later we're talking about going back.

The numerous 'Police Actions' since then where we instilled puppet governments and have since cut and run when things turned bad for the puppet.

Panama, we invaded a country to serve an arrest warrant, a whole lot of folks died in that little no knock warrant.

The list goes on and on. And before anyone calls me a socialist left wing hippie liberal tree hugging nazi/terrorist lover who thinks that it's all G.W.'s fault....

You better get a grip and find out who I am first.

the U.S. has a history of only doing what is in it's best interest. There was no need to attack Saddam Hussain when we did.  I think, morally it was wrong.  The fact that Saddam was a murderous tyrant who killed his own people is a sad fact of life. But it is being done by other murderous tyrants elsewhere that we seem to just ignore.  

Because we went into Iraq, without U.N. and world sanction, we put not only our country and it's citizens at risk, but now have dragged others into a quagmire that may be the viet nam of the 21st century.

You all may not like the United Nations, and in many cases I have to agree, it has become a spinless bickering group of idiots who cannot solve the worlds problems because they admit terrorist nations and countries whos human rights records are very questionable. But to engage in a war, just or not, without a formal sanction
puts a great stress on the invading country.  We tried our case before the U.N. We lost. We should have backed off and found more evidence of either weapons or of France, Germany, and Russia's involvement in the food for oil scandal, and other violations of U.N. sanctions. (Yes we knew about it then)

G.B. and many other nations have been a great friend to the U.S. and have backed us in this little war. I think those pro gung ho, American is the only one,  f*** the world, we can do what ever we want types need to thank a few of those folks from other countries for YOUR freedom. They are putting their sons and fathers and sisters and brothers and mothers and daughter in harms way as well.  

For those who also think the U.S. does not need to care about what the world thinks, heres a little clue. We are tied to a global economy. We out source many jobs to other countries in order to help our economy. (Lower cost and lower prices)
plus it puts former third world countries into the global game.  Not all out sourcing is bad. We currently do not have enough troops in the U.S. to defend ourselves in the event of a direct attack on the U.S.  We do not have enough law enforcement and national guard in the event of a major citizen revolt.  If we have another time in our history like 9/11 who do you think will support us? As world opinion goes, so goes our freedom. If we are attacked again, the noose around our freedoms will tighten in the name of national security.

It's easy to sit at a keyboard and second guess Bush, Blair, and a whole world of troubles. It is also easy to sit at a keyboard and call people names without getting to know who they are, where they are how they live and a whole list of other little things that make each of us unique.  But it is a lot harder to research history from all perspectives and make and informed judgement. It is also a lot harder to get to know people a half a world away and understand their perspective on the issues.

It is now November 4th 2004 where I am at. Last bit of thought from leftist socialist terrorist lover. (According to some)
In the next twenty four hours over 1000 children will die due to war, starvation disease or brutality. It is a fair guess to say that in Iraq, someones son or daughter will die either at the hands of a terrorist, or the U.S. led coalition.
You tell me when should it stop, what is the magical body count that ends a war. I know it's not 10,000 because it didn't stop Viet Nam.


#33    vimjams

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 09:15 AM

I know you are not 'leftist' Stillcrazy...We've had our fallouts...But, having an opinion that some very vocal 'rightists' disagree with...is enough to draw personal attacks anyway. They don't like the idea that somebody has an argument to their behaviour and attitude

I'm afraid that is the way the world will now develope. Voting for Bush is to become something a great many people will live to regret.  

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Edited by vimjams, 04 November 2004 - 09:16 AM.

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#34    stillcrazy

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 09:21 AM

QUOTE(vimjams @ Nov 4 2004, 01:15 AM)
I know you are not 'leftist' Stillcrazy...We've had our fallouts...But, having an opinion that some very vocal 'rightists' disagree with...is enough to draw personal attacks anyway. They don't like the idea that somebody has an argument to their behaviour and attitude

I'm afraid that is the way the world will now develope. Voting for Bush is to become something a great many people will live to regret. 

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Thanks VJ. I see you have defended my honor a few times.
I have to agree, but I don't think it would have mattered if it were Bush or Kerry. The wheels where put into faster motion March 2003, but they were already turning before Geo. Bush was elected.


#35    Lottie

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 09:36 AM

World Leaders Congratulate Bush

World leaders have congratulated US President George W Bush on the clear-cut election victory that will give him a second term in office.  

But many - including key allies - have warned  that the US faces major challenges in the Middle East.

Mr Bush won about 51% of the vote and at least 274 electoral college votes to beat John Kerry in Tuesday's poll.

Mr Kerry admitted defeat when it became clear that he would not win the key state of Ohio.


Mr Bush praised his opponent and said he was "proud to lead such an amazing country".

Arab dismay

World leaders were quick to respond to the news of his victory - some in warmer terms than others.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a key ally, said: "The need to  revitalise the Middle East peace process is the single most pressing political challenge in our world today."  

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak cited the need for "peaceful development" in the region in his congratulations to Mr Bush, as did a spokesman for ailing Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

But BBC Arab affairs analyst Magdi Abdelhadi says Mr Bush's victory was greeted with general dismay in the Arab world, where anti-American feelings are running high in the wake of the US-led invasion of Iraq.

BBC world affairs editor John Simpson says Mr Bush's victory may in fact make life easier for countries such as France and Germany, which have had tense relations with him after strongly opposing the war in Iraq.

If Mr Kerry had got in they might have been forced to do something about helping with Iraq but now they do not need to, he says.

'Emerging democracies'

In his victory speech, Mr Bush made reference to Iraq as well as Afghanistan - the other country invaded and occupied by the US during his first term.

He said the US would "help the emerging democracies of Afghanistan and Iraq to grow in strength and freedom".

"And then our servicemen and women will come home with the honour they have earned," he added.

Mr Bush set out a conservative social and economic agenda for his second four-year term, singling out tax reform, social security and education as priorities.

President Bush will begin his new term in January with strengthened Republican majorities in both houses of Congress.  

Projections put turnout in the presidential election at more than 115 million voters - 10 million more than in 2000.

The projected vote showed Mr Bush leading Mr Kerry nationwide by three-and-a-half million votes.

        




#36    zephyr

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 10:20 AM

I would like to congratulate all the Bushies on these forums and wish them another happy four years!


#37    Erikl

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 10:53 AM

QUOTE
Palestinian Envoy to Paris Leila Shahid...


Does anyone else find it ironic for a Palestinian envoy to be called "shahid"? rolleyes.gif

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#38    Erikl

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 11:03 AM

BTW - why do people consider the Democrats to be leftists?
I mean, where does this association stamming from?

Historically, Democrats' civil right record is much, much worse than those of the the republicans.
After all, the Democrats were the ones supporting slavery all those years in the south.
Abraham Lincoln was a Republican (the first president ever from the Republican party).
Jefferson Davis was president from the Democrats, and the Democrats where pro-States right and pro-Slavery back then and a long time after that.
The way I see it, the Democrats are in no way Left.
(after all, isn't eqality to all one of the bases of the Left's ideology).

So I wonder - how did it come to this that a party with a history of pro-Slavery, pro-Nationalism (ie - more independent to every state), became associated with the Left huh.gif?
Anyone can share light on this please?

Edited by Erikl, 04 November 2004 - 11:04 AM.

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#39    Shadowsleet

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 11:25 AM

I don't think the democrats are left wing at all....certainly, if they were in the UK they wouldn't be considered left wing (they'd likely be center, or maybe center right). The US doesn't seem to have any left wing parties that are worth noticing...the closest they have is Nader.

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#40    Erikl

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 12:49 PM

True, this is why I don't understand Europeans who divide the American bi-party system into left vs. right.
Here too both the Democrats and Republicans would be considered right-wing, because of their economic agendas.

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#41    Shadowsleet

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 01:32 PM

I think it would be more accurate to sum it up as right vs slightly less right tongue.gif

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#42    kikuchiyo

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:49 PM

wow, it's pretty nice even in the microcosm of UM, the effects of the world is felt. This is a mirror of what the major parts of the world.
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no wonder the united-states feels like the center of the world...much like england in the colonial days.

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#43    Babs

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE(Erikl @ Nov 3 2004, 04:30 PM)
Ahhh... the good ol' oil argument... the only problem I have with people who remind point it out, is that they somehow ignore the fact that it goes both way - you no, the US is not the only country using oil.
I can think of number of other countries who need oil just as bad and for that reason and that reason alone were against the war whistling2.gif....

Anyway, even if true, and I don't deny the possibility that it might, this argument is as valid as any for this war.
It's nice to sit in youre warm little houses, inside youre room that is made of oil product, and infront of youre computer that is 90% petro-based.
Without oil, you and I will have nothing.
No plastics, no neylon, no computers, no electricity. Nothing.
We are peto-civilization, and as such, we will always need oil (untill we'll manage to withdraw ourselves from it and use alternative energy and industrial source).
And yes, in order for you to be able to sleep in the conditions you have today, wars will have to be waged by youre leaders, so the oil will keep comming and you can buy the next CD of youre favourite band.

Don't like the truth? happy to go back into youre bubble were you are enlighted and somewhat above this oil dependency?

Good luck.

But untill then - stop with this petronising hypocrisy.

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Just started reading posts, but when I got to this one, I gotta say,"You've said it so well again, Erikl!" thumbsup.gif

And someone said something about the price of oil in the US. Yeah, we're paying up the butt for oil here, you'd think we'd come out 'smooth' at the pumps, if this was a war waged for oil. If we're fighting and dying for this project, why not a little bargin for the US citizen?


"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"

Henry David Thoreau...

#44    Babs

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 03:25 PM

Only 25% of the American people don't like Bush. It is not a country divided as the media and democratic hype would have you believe. Not to mention europe and the rest that are against our noble warrior Bush.

Edited by Babs, 04 November 2004 - 03:28 PM.

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#45    kikuchiyo

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 03:29 PM

noble warrior?...it's like saying the atom bomb was the peaceful alternative.

the world is affect by the political winds of the US, thats why the world is divided, it's possible that most american appreciate Bush but world wide it's not the same.

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