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Who Really Believes in God?


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#1    StarMountainKid

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:34 PM

The following is some ideas I’m thinking about from an interview with the philosopher Daniel Dennett. I'm talking about religious belief here.

I think many people don’t really believe in God, they believe in the belief in God. Most people who say they believe in God actually believe in the belief in God. They may consider belief in God as good thing, it is something to strive for, something to be proud of. Certainly you should try to believe in God, they would say. The behavior of somebody who believes in the belief in God is just what we observe. You go to church, you sing hymns, and you give money to the church and so forth. We want to live comfortably with this kind of belief.

On the other hand, I think if you really believe in God you would be a very strict religious fundamentalist. Those who believe in the belief in God don’t put their lives on the line for God, for instance, whereas if you actually believe in God you would easily put your life on the line voluntarily and happily. Jesus and various martyrs come to mind.

These kinds of desperate circumstances don’t occur very often for us, if at all, but I wonder how many would risk death for their belief if these critical circumstances did occur.

My question is, honestly, do you believe in God, or do you believe in the belief in God?

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#2    MissJatti

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:48 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 27 March 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

On the other hand, I think if you really believe in God you would be a very strict religious fundamentalist. Those who believe in the belief in God don’t put their lives on the line for God, for instance, whereas if you actually believe in God you would easily put your life on the line voluntarily and happily. Jesus and various martyrs come to mind.

a good post, idk where i stand on this topic, but this line i quoted is quite interesting.....
ok imagine im a muslim, fully believe in god, and im strapped to some tnt, for god, and have easily put my life on the line voluntarily and happily....
maybe the world will be a safer place if people believe in the belief of god

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#3    markdohle

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:53 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 27 March 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

The following is some ideas I’m thinking about from an interview with the philosopher Daniel Dennett. I'm talking about religious belief here.

I think many people don’t really believe in God, they believe in the belief in God. Most people who say they believe in God actually believe in the belief in God. They may consider belief in God as good thing, it is something to strive for, something to be proud of. Certainly you should try to believe in God, they would say. The behavior of somebody who believes in the belief in God is just what we observe. You go to church, you sing hymns, and you give money to the church and so forth. We want to live comfortably with this kind of belief.

On the other hand, I think if you really believe in God you would be a very strict religious fundamentalist. Those who believe in the belief in God don’t put their lives on the line for God, for instance, whereas if you actually believe in God you would easily put your life on the line voluntarily and happily. Jesus and various martyrs come to mind.

These kinds of desperate circumstances don’t occur very often for us, if at all, but I wonder how many would risk death for their belief if these critical circumstances did occur.

My question is, honestly, do you believe in God, or do you believe in the belief in God?

i believe in God, am not fundamentalist by any means and I find most atheist the ones who come across as black and white in their thinking.  It is obvious that the universe is made up of lots of information,  it had a beginning and will have an end, it is not eternal, it screams an underlying intelligence.  Dennet speaks from his perspective, which limits his understand what belief in God really is for those who do.  Many people are practical-atheist, but not real atheist, they just don't think it through.  Perhaps real atheist, are  the ones who do and good for them ;-).

Peace
Mark


#4    markdohle

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:56 PM

View PostSkeptcByMindBelievrByHeart, on 27 March 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

a good post, idk where i stand on this topic, but this line i quoted is quite interesting.....
ok imagine im a muslim, fully believe in god, and im strapped to some tnt, for god, and have easily put my life on the line voluntarily and happily....
maybe the world will be a safer place if people believe in the belief of god


People put their lives on the line for many things, not just religion.  Communist die for what they believe in, they also kill for it, it is a human thing.  So what you say makes no real sense to me......criminals will kill and die for what they want, people will kill and die for their country, God has noting to do with it.




Peace
mark

Edited by markdohle, 27 March 2014 - 07:57 PM.


#5    MissJatti

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:16 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 27 March 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:



People put their lives on the line for many things, not just religion.  Communist die for what they believe in, they also kill for it, it is a human thing.  So what you say makes no real sense to me......criminals will kill and die for what they want, people will kill and die for their country, God has noting to do with it.

Peace
mark

you dont make any sense sir mark.... this topic is about religion and god right, and when taliban has a dynamite strapped to his body shouting this is for allah this is what allah allahlalalayouyaaa wants ,...crap, from what angle god has nothing to do with it comes from???

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#6    toast

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:20 PM

No/No.

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#7    travelnjones

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:20 PM

I believe in god exclusively.


#8    6.6.6

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:31 PM

It takes a certain type of gullible person, to believe in something with no proof or reason, its quite worrying that so many are willing to live their lifes in accordance to a book of stories thats been rewritten and changed so much that it is nothing but tall tales and fanciful stories!

Sheep being led by wolves!

Edited by 6.6.6, 27 March 2014 - 09:32 PM.


#9    simplybill

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:49 PM

View PostSkeptcByMindBelievrByHeart, on 27 March 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:



you dont make any sense sir mark.... this topic is about religion and god right, and when taliban has a dynamite strapped to his body shouting this is for allah this is what allah allahlalalayouyaaa wants ,...crap, from what angle god has nothing to do with it comes from???
Skeptc: a Christian martyr is different than a fundamentalist jihadist type of martyr in that Christians will often choose to be led as "sheep to the slaughter" rather than deny Christ. Jihadists, on the other hand, are taught that suicide and mass murder are pleasing to Allah. Nothing makes me angrier than the thought of manipulative, controlling middle-aged imams sending young men and women to their suicidal deaths while they themselves sit in the safety of the madrassah and bask in the respect of their adoring young students. Their perverting of innocents is reprehensible. I have too much affection for the Muslims I know for me to water down my beliefs and "embrace all religions in love."
That's my rant for today. I'm not ranting against you, I'm ranting against the bloodthirsty imams and their self-righteous, youth-destroying fatwas.

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#10    markdohle

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:54 PM

View PostSkeptcByMindBelievrByHeart, on 27 March 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

you dont make any sense sir mark.... this topic is about religion and god right, and when taliban has a dynamite strapped to his body shouting this is for allah this is what allah allahlalalayouyaaa wants ,...crap, from what angle god has nothing to do with it comes from???

People do all kinds of crazy things.  For most, politics, religion and even sports causes no harm to others.....then there are others, they do lots of damage.  So becasue someone straps a bomb to his body, does not mean that all people who have on some level the same understanding  of reality it does not follow that they are all fanatics, crazy or evil.  

Peace
mark


#11    GreenmansGod

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:04 PM

Define God.  God is different depending on how you see God. Some see God as being separate from the Universe who created the universe. Some see God as the Universe or some God as one of many gods... etc.   So their belief is different.

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#12    travelnjones

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:08 PM

View Post6.6.6, on 27 March 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

It takes a certain type of gullible person, to believe in something with no proof or reason, its quite worrying that so many are willing to live their lifes in accordance to a book of stories thats been rewritten and changed so much that it is nothing but tall tales and fanciful stories!

Sheep being led by wolves!

Please we all believe in lies!  Our lives have meaning.  The world would not be burdened  if i continued living.  Suicide has no value.  How many lies do we tell ourselves.

Matter and other minds are just assumptions we conveniently choose to believe.  It's easier not to question what everyone else agrees upon it happening.


#13    markdohle

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:18 PM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 27 March 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

Define God.  God is different depending on how you see God. Some see God as being separate from the Universe who created the universe. Some see God as the Universe or some God as one of many gods... etc.   So their belief is different.

Both, I guess, immanent and transcendent

Peace
Mark.


#14    Misanthropic

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:50 PM

View Post6.6.6, on 27 March 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Its quite worrying that so many are willing to live their lifes in accordance to a book of stories thats been rewritten and changed so much that it is nothing but tall tales and fanciful stories!

What me worry?

It's not such a bad thing really.
Everyone has/needs/wants something to believe in.

That's cool with me as long as they don't harsh my buzz tryin' to push it on me.

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#15    quiXilver

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:51 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 27 March 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

...

I think many people don’t really believe in God, they believe in the belief in God. Most people who say they believe in God actually believe in the belief in God....

Agreed.

"Unknowingly, we plow the dust of stars, blown about us by the wind and drink the universe in a glass of rain." ~ Ihab Hassan
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