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EPA Conducted dangerous tests on kids


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#1    Merc14

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:47 PM

In order to justify even harsher clean air regulations the out of control EPA conducted pollution experiments on older people and kids
http://www.breitbart...nts-on-Children
The Environmental Protection Agency is under fire for exposing children to pollution as part of an experiment at the University of Southern California.

This information is coming to light from the website junkscience.com after an investigation from the EPA's Office of the Inspector General stated in a recent report that the EPA’s pollution experiments on older people, done at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, were more harmful to the subjects than what the EPA presented.

The IG also said that while the experiment's subjects did consent to exposure, the “risks were not always consistently represented.”

“Further, the EPA did not include information on long-term cancer risks in its diesel exhaust studies’ consent forms. An EPA manager considered these long-term risks minimal for short-term study exposures,” the IG report said.

In February of 2013, JunkScience.com reported that the EPA gave USC money in the mid 2000’s to find out whether diesel exhaust could “induce reproducible gene expression” in children. From a USC grant in the EPA extramural research grants database, the original December 14, 2012 document showed diesel exposures to children. What now sits on that database is a strongly edited description of the diesel tests on the children. Part of the the experiment's goal was to examine how particulate matter affects "Asthma in Susceptible Children."

rest of article here http://www.breitbart...nts-on-Children

Edited by Merc14, 02 April 2014 - 10:48 PM.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#2    Skep B

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:09 AM

I don't see the problem.

What else was supposed to be done to find out the answer they wanted?

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#3    Merc14

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:40 AM

View PostScheming B, on 03 April 2014 - 02:09 AM, said:

I don't see the problem.

What else was supposed to be done to find out the answer they wanted?

Maybe you should let them know they can dump diesel exhaust into your kid's lungs next time.  Better yet,  you can volunteer yourself to suck on an exhaust pipe to further the EPA's mission.  How about it?  Please, let us know how it goes.  ;)

Edited by Merc14, 03 April 2014 - 02:42 AM.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#4    Skep B

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:43 AM

The test was to find out what happens to kids.  I wouldn't be particularly helpful.

Regardless, consent forms were filled, no one was seriously hurt. And from what's being said it was monitored by professionals.

While I can understand someone not liking the idea, the reality is that it's something that should be tested.

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#5    Merc14

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:57 AM

View PostScheming B, on 03 April 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

The test was to find out what happens to kids.  I wouldn't be particularly helpful.

Regardless, consent forms were filled, no one was seriously hurt. And from what's being said it was monitored by professionals.

While I can understand someone not liking the idea, the reality is that it's something that should be tested.

On you!  Why aren't you there?  Maybe you are!  If so I am sure that if you found out that what you were told of the danger level was far below the actual exposure, you'd be fine.

Hey, I am all for sacrificing your health for the betterment of the EPA.  Hell, send me photos of your lungs, I'll use them as wallpaper on the ****ty computer in the garage.

Regardless, why aren't you contributing to the cause?  Sorry, maybe you are and I missed it.  What tests are you involved in to further the EPA's mission?

Edited by Merc14, 03 April 2014 - 02:57 AM.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#6    Skep B

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:13 AM

I'm not a child and the test was for the effects on children.


Quote

If so I am sure that if you found out that what you were told of the danger level was far below the actual exposure, you'd be fine.
So that the danger level wasn't as high as I initially thought, so the amount of danger I was in was less? Sure. I'd be totally ok with that.


Why exactly are you so angry about this?

Theres no long term effects of this, it got data that was wanted, no laws were broken.  What's the problem?

is it the EPA you've got a gripe with?

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#7    Br Cornelius

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:30 AM

View PostScheming B, on 03 April 2014 - 03:13 AM, said:

I'm not a child and the test was for the effects on children.



So that the danger level wasn't as high as I initially thought, so the amount of danger I was in was less? Sure. I'd be totally ok with that.


Why exactly are you so angry about this?

Theres no long term effects of this, it got data that was wanted, no laws were broken.  What's the problem?

is it the EPA you've got a gripe with?
Merc believes the EPA needs to be abolished and will use any stick to beat it with.
He would rather have industry free to pollute us with diesel smoke without any restrictions.

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#8    Merc14

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:26 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 03 April 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Merc believes the EPA needs to be abolished and will use any stick to beat it with.
He would rather have industry free to pollute us with diesel smoke without any restrictions.

Br Cornelius

Ahhh, the old Ad Hominem argumnet, a br specialty and the attack mode of choice of the weak minded.  Of course I don't want industry polluting and running amok but neither do I want out of control regulatory agencies.  I also think the IRS should be dissolved, as it is now out of control as well.

The EPA has grown far beyond its originally intended mandate and is legislating and making law through regulation.  It needs to be abandoned and replaced by something that regulates, not legislates.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#9    Br Cornelius

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:28 AM

Good to hear your real intention from the horses mouth.
What exactly would have reduced the fatality causing smog problem of the USA without the EPA exactly ?

Br Cornelius

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#10    Agent0range

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:18 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 03 April 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Good to hear your real intention from the horses mouth.
What exactly would have reduced the fatality causing smog problem of the USA without the EPA exactly ?

Br Cornelius

Ask China.


#11    Agent0range

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:23 PM

Once again, you are making an emotional post, calling for the end of something without considering the alternatives.  Dissolve the EPA?  Oh, because businesses will be responsible enough to regulate themslelves, right?  Don't be naive.

Here is the alternative, Merc.
http://www.cbsnews.c...s-smog-problem/

Edited by Agent0range, 03 April 2014 - 12:24 PM.


#12    Babe Ruth

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:48 PM

View PostMerc14, on 03 April 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Ahhh, the old Ad Hominem argumnet, a br specialty and the attack mode of choice of the weak minded.  Of course I don't want industry polluting and running amok but neither do I want out of control regulatory agencies.  I also think the IRS should be dissolved, as it is now out of control as well.

The EPA has grown far beyond its originally intended mandate and is legislating and making law through regulation.  It needs to be abandoned and replaced by something that regulates, not legislates.

I'm sure you know that all federal agencies, through the NPRM process, makes rules that carry the weight of laws.

I understand your point, and agree with it up to a point, but as we're seeing with Duke in NC with the coal ash, and many other cases running to SEC and Madoff, the regulatory agencies don't really regulate.  They snort coke at parties with those they are supposed to be regulating, and that's not good.


#13    Merc14

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:07 PM

View PostAgent0range, on 03 April 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ask China.

Like unions, the EPA was absolutely necessary at its inception.  What industry was dioing to our environment in teh 60's was beyond a disaster, it was a nightmare.  I know because I lived minutes from Love Canal and teh other horrors in that area of western NY.  .  Also like unions, it grew to become a monster that destroys more than it saves.  A mud puddle in the backyard is not a wetland but that is what EPA has become.

Our disagreement is that you are a big giovernment, big brother lovin'  guy and I am not. Government unchecked always becomes dangerous and/or evil and ours is just abouty there now and EPA is a big part of that.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#14    Merc14

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:22 PM

View PostAgent0range, on 03 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Once again, you are making an emotional post, calling for the end of something without considering the alternatives.  Dissolve the EPA?  Oh, because businesses will be responsible enough to regulate themslelves, right?  Don't be naive.

Here is the alternative, Merc.
http://www.cbsnews.c...s-smog-problem/

No, it needs to be replaced with another organization with a less intrusive mandate.  The destruction of the coal industry via regulatory mandate is not about pollution any longer, it is about appeasing the radical left environmentalist arm of the democrat party.   The IRS suppressing right wing fundraising is another example of a government agency wildly our of control.  I realize that the left cheers these overreaches but they should consider that sooner or later these powers will be used against them.  That is the story history tells over and over again.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#15    Perceptivum

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:38 PM

The problem is not the principle of the departments you reference (i.e., EPA and IRS); alas the problem lies with the current people running those departments or with people who have significant influence over those departments.  Let's not be hasty and call for a dismissal of the EPA and IRS because you are opposed to those who have power and influence within them - push to get those you oppose out the door.  Don't cut off your hand because of a hang-nail.

"Even if you are in a minority of one, the truth is still the truth". - Ghandi

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