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Republicans block 'Paycheck Fairness Act'


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#1    Render

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:10 AM

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Republicans in the US Senate have blocked a Democratic bill aimed at closing the gap between what men and women are paid.
The Paycheck Fairness Act fell seven votes short of the 60 required to advance in the chamber.
Republicans dismiss the bill as an election year ploy that would invite frivolous lawsuits.
But Democrats cite Census Bureau data indicating women earn 77 cents for every dollar men earn.
"Republicans in Congress continue to oppose serious efforts to create jobs, grow the economy, and level the playing field for working families," President Barack Obama, a Democrat, said in a statement.
"That's wrong, and it's harmful for our national efforts to rebuild an economy that gives every American who works hard a fair shot to get ahead."

http://www.bbc.com/n...canada-26964278

Maybe this article/reporter isn't telling the whole story, but the way im reading it here is that this is completely ridiculous and a slap in the face for women.
So what is the deal here, cmon?


#2    Taun

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:14 AM

I don't know the full particulars on this bill, but a lot of times it's not the bill that is protested so much as the "riders" on the bill... They will often attach a totally
un-related proposal on a bill to try and 'sneak it through' ...

This one though, I feel may have been a case of objecting to the wording of the bill rather than the intent...

It is interesting to me that if this has been such a massive problem for so long... why did they wait for an election year to do something about it?... The Republicans are
not the only ones being hypocrites here...

Edited by Taun, 10 April 2014 - 11:15 AM.


#3    Render

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:19 AM

View PostTaun, on 10 April 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:


It is interesting to me that if this has been such a massive problem for so long... why did they wait for an election year to do something about it?... The Republicans are
not the only ones being hypocrites here...

True, but shouldn't politicians be able to get past that and their own ego's and just agree that progress for women in the workfield is simply good ? Not every damn thing has to be this transparant game instead of just doing what is right.
Blocking this just sends a horrible message..


#4    Taun

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:39 AM

View PostRender, on 10 April 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

True, but shouldn't politicians be able to get past that and their own ego's and just agree that progress for women in the workfield is simply good ? Not every damn thing has to be this transparant game instead of just doing what is right.
Blocking this just sends a horrible message..

That's true as well... but perhaps the wording of the bill DOES open up massive and crippling lawsuits, that in no way help the country, the people or the businesses...
I do think though that if lawsuits was their biggest concern they should have worked in committee to iron out the wording...

As to the 'earning 77 cents to every dollar men do'... perhaps that has a bit to do with the types of jobs women tend to hire on to do... When ever I've worked in a mixed gender office/shop etc, the women
were paid comperably to the men doing the same type job...  Perhaps part of the problem is the carear paths young women/girls get steered into (or go into on their own) while in school...

Women (generally speaking) do not go into construction, oil field work, or similar job fields and the number of female technicians is extremely small... Not because no one will hire them, but because they
generally do not train for that field...  Women (again generally speaking) tend to go into retail, food service, medical and clerical positions... While the medical field does have respectable earning potential, the
others pretty much do not...


#5    Agent0range

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:42 AM

How do you even enforce something like that?  In all areas of work, you will have pay differences between people holding the same job title.  I have to agree that this type of bill only paves the way for stupid lawsuits.


#6    Taun

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:59 PM

View PostAgent0range, on 10 April 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

How do you even enforce something like that?  In all areas of work, you will have pay differences between people holding the same job title.  I have to agree that this type of bill only paves the way for stupid lawsuits.

To a politician, enforcement is not always important... and it is definitly not as important as looking like you are doing something...


#7    Render

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:35 PM

View PostTaun, on 10 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

That's true as well... but perhaps the wording of the bill DOES open up massive and crippling lawsuits, that in no way help the country, the people or the businesses...
I do think though that if lawsuits was their biggest concern they should have worked in committee to iron out the wording...

As to the 'earning 77 cents to every dollar men do'... perhaps that has a bit to do with the types of jobs women tend to hire on to do... When ever I've worked in a mixed gender office/shop etc, the women
were paid comperably to the men doing the same type job...  Perhaps part of the problem is the carear paths young women/girls get steered into (or go into on their own) while in school...

Women (generally speaking) do not go into construction, oil field work, or similar job fields and the number of female technicians is extremely small... Not because no one will hire them, but because they
generally do not train for that field...  Women (again generally speaking) tend to go into retail, food service, medical and clerical positions... While the medical field does have respectable earning potential, the
others pretty much do not...

Ah ok, so i read the 0.77 to a dollar differently. I read it as : A woman is paid 0,33 cents less than a man , on average, for the same work.


And as you and AgentOrange say , you are right . this bill is vague. So is this a game within a game or what? Meaning that this is more of a set up to let the Republicans look bad , because it would've been expected that they would turn this vague bill down.



View PostTaun, on 10 April 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

To a politician, enforcement is not always important... and it is definitly not as important as looking like you are doing something...

Sadly, o so very true.

Edited by Render, 10 April 2014 - 01:35 PM.


#8    Jeremiah65

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:42 PM

I heard somewhere that there was a component that demanded the right for someone to "check" on the salaries of others to make sure they were being paid the same.

That is an invasion of privacy.  Everyone is an adult, you negotiate your own salary.  I have worked places in the past where one person found out another person made a little more money than them and they acted like a fool over it...this did not help them close the gap by any means.

Just because person A is a better salary negotiator than person B...it does not mean person B can use person A as a scapegoat and a way to recover from being a crappy negotiator.

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#9    Beany

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

I participated in a comparable worth study some years ago, and the differences in pay equity were easy to identify, and easy to correct. I'd be happy to briefly share the results of that six month study, it was a real eye opener. Women should be allowed to bring lawsuits against employers who engage in gender bias in the workplace. I imagine if they had the law backing them, which it essentially doesn't right now, there would be less discrimination, due to the consequences of maintaining that bias. Because that's what we're talking about, discrimination, as demonstrated by the lower pay women get for doing the kind of work that men do. And there is no reason why women should be paid less for choosing to work in jobs that are typically filled by more women than men.


#10    Beany

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:56 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 10 April 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

I heard somewhere that there was a component that demanded the right for someone to "check" on the salaries of others to make sure they were being paid the same.

That is an invasion of privacy.  Everyone is an adult, you negotiate your own salary.  I have worked places in the past where one person found out another person made a little more money than them and they acted like a fool over it...this did not help them close the gap by any means.

Just because person A is a better salary negotiator than person B...it does not mean person B can use person A as a scapegoat and a way to recover from being a crappy negotiator.

Salary schedules can be "checked" without revealing the identities of employees, you know. And looking at salary schedules and benchmark positions is a great way to review any possibly gender wage bias. I know, because I've actually done this. Be happy to tell you how it works, if you're interested.


#11    Beany

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:00 PM

View PostTaun, on 10 April 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

I don't know the full particulars on this bill, but a lot of times it's not the bill that is protested so much as the "riders" on the bill... They will often attach a totally
un-related proposal on a bill to try and 'sneak it through' ...

This one though, I feel may have been a case of objecting to the wording of the bill rather than the intent...

It is interesting to me that if this has been such a massive problem for so long... why did they wait for an election year to do something about it?... The Republicans are
not the only ones being hypocrites here...

Uh, Obama signed a gender equity bill about 4 years ago, don't remember the name of the bill, but it was named after a women who won a lawsuit against her employer, who had been discriminating against women for decades, paying them substantially less for doing the same job as men.


#12    Beany

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:04 PM

View PostTaun, on 10 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

That's true as well... but perhaps the wording of the bill DOES open up massive and crippling lawsuits, that in no way help the country, the people or the businesses...
I do think though that if lawsuits was their biggest concern they should have worked in committee to iron out the wording...

As to the 'earning 77 cents to every dollar men do'... perhaps that has a bit to do with the types of jobs women tend to hire on to do... When ever I've worked in a mixed gender office/shop etc, the women
were paid comperably to the men doing the same type job...  Perhaps part of the problem is the carear paths young women/girls get steered into (or go into on their own) while in school...

Women (generally speaking) do not go into construction, oil field work, or similar job fields and the number of female technicians is extremely small... Not because no one will hire them, but because they
generally do not train for that field...  Women (again generally speaking) tend to go into retail, food service, medical and clerical positions... While the medical field does have respectable earning potential, the
others pretty much do not...

What the bill addresses is women getting paid for the same work that men do within the same shop. Who would be helped by law suits, besides women? Which is a pretty big "besides?" Children of single moms, the economy, local businesses. If an employer doesn't discriminate, then they would have nothing to worry about, would they?


#13    BuzzLightYear

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:58 PM

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Republicans in Congress continue to oppose serious efforts to create jobs, grow the economy, and level the playing field for working families," President Barack Obama, a Democrat, said in a statement.


http://majorityleader.gov/JobsTracker/


40 Jobs Bills Stuck In The Senate

House Republicans have passed 40 jobs bills that are currently stuck in the Democrat controlled Senate.

Most of these bills have had no action taken on them whatsoever as Harry Reid does not bring them up for a vote.

One must be cautious of any rehotoric spewed by either party.

Edited by BuzzLightYear, 10 April 2014 - 02:59 PM.


#14    Taun

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:04 PM

View PostBeany, on 10 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Uh, Obama signed a gender equity bill about 4 years ago, don't remember the name of the bill, but it was named after a women who won a lawsuit against her employer, who had been discriminating against women for decades, paying them substantially less for doing the same job as men.

So if there was a bill about this 4 years ago... why this extra bill?...  I'm not arguing that discrimination doesn't happen... I'm just saying the timing on this one indicates to me a purely political ploy to grab votes...


#15    Sweetpumper

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:25 PM

ALL kitchen employees should be paid the same.

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