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500-Million-Year-Old Vessel?

dorchester vessel rock oopart neoproterozoic era

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:41 PM

A metallic vessel was found after an explosion of rock in Dorchester, Mass., in 1852. The questions raised by this finding are, how did the vessel get into rock that's more than 500 million years old, and did it really come from inside the rock?

http://www.theepocht...vessel/?photo=2

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#2    stereologist

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:40 PM

I've been to creationist lectures where they make this and other claims. They try to show that the dating methods are flawed since modern objects are found in what is supposed to be ancient rock.

What is missing here is the impression in the rock left by the object. If there were a cast of the object evident in the puddingstone, then a case could be made that this is an out of place object. Similar claims of objects in lumps of coal are often listed in places discussing such objects. The impressions in the coal are never shown. Creationists discuss Civil War buttons being found in coal lumps, yet there are no lumps of coal showing the impression of a button. There are also no places that creationists can show where a tremendous amount of organic material has accumulated and been turned into recent coal.

Here is an object supposedly encased in puddingstone yet the place it was encased is nowhere to be found.

The London Hammer is much more interesting since the concretion was kept with the hammer. There really isn't much to this story of the Dorcester vessel.


#3    DieChecker

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:12 PM

This artifact was dug up in 1852, back when they still published stories about Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill in the newspapers and called them real. It very easily could just be a story of fiction.

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#4    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 01:18 AM

If you all think the story is phony, than the fact that they say the artifact came from fifteen feet under will mean nothing, I am sure.

This stuff really tic's me off:
"Debunking website Bad Archaeology states that the vessel probably didn’t come from inside the rock and those who found it wrongly assumed it did when they found it at the site of the explosion. The website says it resembles recent artifacts."

So debunkers did their "wave the magic wand, and PRESTO, solved! And that is "science"?
How the cluck would THEY know?

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#5    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:14 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 12 April 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

If you all think the story is phony, than the fact that they say the artifact came from fifteen feet under will mean nothing, I am sure.

This stuff really tic's me off:
"Debunking website Bad Archaeology states that the vessel probably didn’t come from inside the rock and those who found it wrongly assumed it did when they found it at the site of the explosion. The website says it resembles recent artifacts."

So debunkers did their "wave the magic wand, and PRESTO, solved! And that is "science"?
How the cluck would THEY know?

Well, they "said" a lot of things in the 1800's.

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#6    stereologist

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:45 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 12 April 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

If you all think the story is phony, than the fact that they say the artifact came from fifteen feet under will mean nothing, I am sure.

This stuff really tic's me off:
"Debunking website Bad Archaeology states that the vessel probably didn’t come from inside the rock and those who found it wrongly assumed it did when they found it at the site of the explosion. The website says it resembles recent artifacts."

So debunkers did their "wave the magic wand, and PRESTO, solved! And that is "science"?
How the cluck would THEY know?
I guess you didn't read my post in which I discussed such things as Civil War buttons found in lumps of coal.

You might not be familiar with puddingstone. It is a conglomerate which is quite hard. The matrix holding the cobblestones is hard. Explosives used to break this material up would be as likely to shear the object as free it from its confinement. I'll bet that the vessel was not filled with stone. Was it? Do you know one way or the other? I'll bet that the vessel was relatively free of corrosion. Was there pitting or missing sections?

There have been more than 1 story from that time frame which were printed for fun. There are tales of giants from that time frame such as the Cardiff giant. There are lots and lots of stories which turned out to be hoaxes.

So how do supporters wave their magic wands and presto its a true story? How are you going to support this story? Are you going to show that the matrix of the puddingstone has invaded the vessel? Are you going to show the portion of the puddingstone that the vessel was imbedded in? How the cluck are you going to turn this fairy tale into a rational story that will lead to a new understanding of our universe?


#7    seaturtlehorsesnake

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:55 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 12 April 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

If you all think the story is phony, than the fact that they say the artifact came from fifteen feet under will mean nothing, I am sure.

This stuff really tic's me off:
"Debunking website Bad Archaeology states that the vessel probably didn’t come from inside the rock and those who found it wrongly assumed it did when they found it at the site of the explosion. The website says it resembles recent artifacts."

So debunkers did their "wave the magic wand, and PRESTO, solved! And that is "science"?
How the cluck would THEY know?

for you and anyone else interested, here's the bad archaeology article that i assume is referenced.

http://www.badarchae...om/?page_id=300

i couldn't find any link to it on the epoch times article, (is it there?) and that was bugging me, so i looked it up.


#8    Harte

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:03 PM

View PostStill Waters, on 11 April 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

A metallic vessel was found after an explosion of rock in Dorchester, Mass., in 1852. The questions raised by this finding are, how did the vessel get into rock that's more than 500 million years old, and did it really come from inside the rock?

http://www.theepocht...vessel/?photo=2
Of the two questions above, the latter is rational.

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#9    DieChecker

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:06 PM

It looks like a candle holder to me.

If we want scientific proof it is different, it should be easy to take some sample scrapings off of it and do a metallurgical test to see what elements are there. In many cases the metal can be pointed back to a country of origin and a time of construction. My guess would be it would test as locally made and current with the time period it was found.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#10    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 01:30 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 12 April 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Well, they "said" a lot of things in the 1800's.

Maybe they did, Imaginarynumber1, but, that does not *prove* that this particular article is a spoof.

I am disappointed that the type of metal in the composition is not more properly addressed, though

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps, 13 April 2014 - 01:31 AM.

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#11    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 01:33 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 13 April 2014 - 01:30 AM, said:

Maybe they did, Imaginarynumber1, but, that does not *prove* that this particular article is a spoof.

I am disappointed that the type of metal in the composition is not more properly addressed, though

Doesn't prove that it isn't, either.

The period is so riffe with hoaxes and outright lies that there is little reason to assump!e that it is not a hoax.

There's just no credibility there. If ancient aliens told !e that 2 plus 2 is 4 I would have a hard time believing them because everything else out of their mouths are complete fabrications.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 13 April 2014 - 01:35 AM.

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#12    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 01:59 AM

View Poststereologist, on 12 April 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

I guess you didn't read my post in which I discussed such things as Civil War buttons found in lumps of coal.

Well, you would guess wrong. I surely did see it.

I have a theory - not one that I feel *must* be the case, just something I contemplate.

We now know of string theory, 11 dimensions.
How do we know whether there are or not, ways to transcend the dimension, of which time is one of them, and perhaps it is, that items, and people, disappear in time.
Again, I am not insisting this is the case, but we should not at all scoff at all ooparts, "just 'cuz"

View Poststereologist, on 12 April 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

You might not be familiar with puddingstone. It is a conglomerate which is quite hard. The matrix holding the cobblestones is hard. Explosives used to break this material up would be as likely to shear the object as free it from its confinement. I'll bet that the vessel was not filled with stone. Was it? Do you know one way or the other? I'll bet that the vessel was relatively free of corrosion. Was there pitting or missing sections?

I, of course, cannot answer your questions. Like to see it one day, I live not far from Dorchester.

View Poststereologist, on 12 April 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

There have been more than 1 story from that time frame which were printed for fun. There are tales of giants from that time frame such as the Cardiff giant. There are lots and lots of stories which turned out to be hoaxes.

Yup. but that does not *prove* that this story in particular is a hoax.

View Poststereologist, on 12 April 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

So how do supporters wave their magic wands and presto its a true story?

They don't.

View Poststereologist, on 12 April 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

How are you going to support this story? Are you going to show that the matrix of the puddingstone has invaded the vessel? Are you going to show the portion of the puddingstone that the vessel was imbedded in? How the cluck are you going to turn this fairy tale into a rational story that will lead to a new understanding of our universe?

such questions!

I wish I just knew the composition to it. By the way, what is your take on the Piri Reis map?

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#13    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 02:02 AM

View Postseaturtlehorsesnake, on 12 April 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

for you and anyone else interested, here's the bad archaeology article that i assume is referenced.

http://www.badarchae...om/?page_id=300

i couldn't find any link to it on the epoch times article, (is it there?) and that was bugging me, so i looked it up.


THanks for sharing

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#14    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 02:04 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 13 April 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

Doesn't prove that it isn't, either.

The period is so riffe with hoaxes and outright lies that there is little reason to assump!e that it is not a hoax.

There's just no credibility there. If ancient aliens told !e that 2 plus 2 is 4 I would have a hard time believing them because everything else out of their mouths are complete fabrications.

total agreement.

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#15    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 02:06 AM

I hope you all understand, I am not totally "sold" one way or the other.

I also don't rush to an answer just for the sake of siding immediately. you have to have *proof* to do that. and I can wait.

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