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Animal experiements

time animal experiments now past present future

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#1    MyOtherAccount

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:03 PM

This may seem misplaced. I almost put it in the Psychology Forum, however I knew those of us who enjoy discussing Space-time might enjoy it best.

When discussing time with people on U-M the two questions always seem to come up:

1. Is time only in our heads?
2. Is Now the same everywhere in the universe?

(Thinking about he second question brought me to the question, "Are Past, Present, Future, and Now all different and more independent than I thought before?" In fact I even wonder if the elements  Past, Present, and Future form one set and Now is an element of another set. Both sets pertaining to time.)

Anyway, the outcome of a set of experiments might help these discussions. The experiments are about the interest in dogs being aware, prior to any kind of tip-off, that their masters are just about to return home. A question to be answered is "Do dogs relate to time differently to humans."

So, I thought this might be a great topic if we all discuss what we think the outcome will help us understand about time.


#2    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:12 AM

The link to astronomy and astrophysics is so tenuous that I am going to move this to the Science & Technology forum.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#3    MyOtherAccount

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:33 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 12 April 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

The link to astronomy and astrophysics is so tenuous that I am going to move this to the Science & Technology forum.
Thanks!!!


#4    spacecowboy342

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:03 AM

View PostMyOtherAccount, on 11 April 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

This may seem misplaced. I almost put it in the Psychology Forum, however I knew those of us who enjoy discussing Space-time might enjoy it best.

When discussing time with people on U-M the two questions always seem to come up:

1. Is time only in our heads?
2. Is Now the same everywhere in the universe?

(Thinking about he second question brought me to the question, "Are Past, Present, Future, and Now all different and more independent than I thought before?" In fact I even wonder if the elements  Past, Present, and Future form one set and Now is an element of another set. Both sets pertaining to time.)

Anyway, the outcome of a set of experiments might help these discussions. The experiments are about the interest in dogs being aware, prior to any kind of tip-off, that their masters are just about to return home. A question to be answered is "Do dogs relate to time differently to humans."

So, I thought this might be a great topic if we all discuss what we think the outcome will help us understand about time.
According to Einstein, now isn't the same everywhere but is dependent on one's reference frame and all are equally valid


#5    taniwha

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 06:18 AM

View PostMyOtherAccount, on 12 April 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:


Thanks!!!

No, no no thank you for bringing up an interesting topic for discussion.  Animals percieve time different to humans.  It is used by the hunter or the hunted as a survival tool.  

Humans can percieve time,  or the rate of flow differently to each other.  

Have you ever heard of  the 40 Conscious Moments Per Second?  Or the Uncanny Valley?  If not then you might find this interesting also.
Both terms are theories that try to define how fast the human mind can processes reality, independant of the true speed that reality passes.  

Consider this link for a minute.

Quote


The hero of Jean-Luc Godard's Le Petit Soldat declared “The cinema is truth, 24 times per second,” as The Guardian's Peter Bradshaw noted while pondering frame rates and cinematic standards last year. Peter Jackson insists that it’s closer to 48 frames per second, as demonstrated by the groundbreaking new frame rate he utilized for this weekend’s The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey. But do scientific theories about the way our brains perceive images and reality — truth unfolding onscreen, in front of our eyes — support Jackson’s brave new vision for cinema, or undermine it?

There is a great gulf between the cinematic look of 24 fps, the traditional rate at which film images are presented in succession to simulate moving images on a screen, and 48 fps. The latter packs more visual information into each second of film, for better and worse. Jackson and his fellow HFR enthusiasts (including James Cameron and Douglas Trumbull) argue that 48 fps and even higher frame rates result in greater clarity and a closer approximation to real life.  They also contend it reduces motion blur, thus improving the look of 3-D images.

But scientists and researchers in the field of consciousness perception say that the human brain perceives reality at a rate somewhere between 24 fps and 48 fps — 40 conscious moments per second, to be more exact — and exceeding the limit of the brain’s speed of cognition beyond the sweet spot that connotes realism is where Jackson & Co. get into trouble.

http://movieline.com...mes-per-second/

Perhaps this is why we loose our car keys,say,  even though we know we put them somewhere? Only to find them in your pocket an hour later lol. Bad with names perhaps?  Forgotten someones name straight after an introduction? Or ever gone to say something and have it fade off the tip of your tongue in an instant? There are lots of silly examples.

Our minds are in a constant state of memory recall and sometimes the senses become blurred.









#6    spacecowboy342

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 08:34 AM

Perception of time has nothing to do with the flow of time.


#7    taniwha

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:00 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 12 April 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Perception of time has nothing to do with the flow of time.

Lol thats about as obvious as asking, 'what colour is an orange?'


#8    spacecowboy342

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:59 PM

View Posttaniwha, on 12 April 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Lol thats about as obvious as asking, 'what colour is an orange?'
Oranges change colors over time


#9    MyOtherAccount

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:31 PM

I am eager to find out if dogs and people have different lengths of span; shorter, same, or longer. On a graph I would put it this way.

DOG'S . . . . . . . . . End of Future . . . . . . . End of Now
DOG. . . ____________X_________________X_________________
SPANS >. . .   Future . . . . . . . . . . Present . . . . . . . . . .Past . . . . . . .> Time
MAN . . . _________________X____________X_________________
MAN'S. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . End of Future . . End of Now

How long is the span-of-time involved in Man's experience of the Present? Or from the vocabulary of the article above, if we were to freeze time, how many sets of 40 moments comprise the span of Present?

And as to moments, I wonder if various animals have various optimal frame rates. Like maybe the Dog has 20 moments a second and each moment is more of an amount of time than ours are.

Then on the less granular scale, does a dog's present last longer than ours, thereby starting sooner than man's--starting toward the end of our future. The only alternative answer to the question of how a dog knows his master is on the way home would be ESP, an equally amazing possibility.

Edited by MyOtherAccount, 12 April 2014 - 11:32 PM.


#10    taniwha

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 02:48 AM

Compared to us insects or bats process information quicker.  They can see more 'reality' moments per second so compared to us they see in slow motion and have faster reaction times.   To a sloth, humans might seem like Batman perhaps.  

Its similar to blinking.   Try blinking slower,  now try blinking faster.  The old saying 'if you blink youll miss it' is true wisdom dressed as humour.  Try not blinking at all.  You will still not be aware to every detail because even the minds eye blinks.  

If time is a river it flows from point A to point B at a precise speed regardless of whether you are a fish or a falcon or a fisherman...
I really believe that Biologicaly as we age, our internal blinking mechanism starts getting tired, it starts to stay closed longer between each blink, this means that even though we are still fully consciouss we recieve less information and process less information yet the river of time appears smooth and unchanged... And the world whizzes by.

It shows good character to help a dear old lady cross the road.

Edited by taniwha, 13 April 2014 - 02:55 AM.


#11    taniwha

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:24 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 12 April 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Oranges change colors over time

Lol more correctly I should have said, " humans can percieve time, or the rate of change differently"  at least someones paying attention to my posts.




#12    taniwha

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 11:38 AM

View PostMyOtherAccount, on 12 April 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

I am eager to find out if dogs and people have different lengths of span; shorter, same, or longer. On a graph I would put it this way.

DOG'S . . . . . . . . . End of Future . . . . . . . End of Now
DOG. . . ____________X_________________X_________________
SPANS >. . .   Future . . . . . . . . . . Present . . . . . . . . . .Past . . . . . . .> Time
MAN . . . _________________X____________X_________________
MAN'S. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . End of Future . . End of Now

How long is the span-of-time involved in Man's experience of the Present? Or from the vocabulary of the article above, if we were to freeze time, how many sets of 40 moments comprise the span of Present?

And as to moments, I wonder if various animals have various optimal frame rates. Like maybe the Dog has 20 moments a second and each moment is more of an amount of time than ours are.

Then on the less granular scale, does a dog's present last longer than ours, thereby starting sooner than man's--starting toward the end of our future. The only alternative answer to the question of how a dog knows his master is on the way home would be ESP, an equally amazing possibility.

Yes dogs have ESP compared to us.  We have ESP compared to worms.





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