Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 2 votes

A little dubunking experiment


  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

#1    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,846 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:24 PM

Often in criticism or debunking the power of the critic or debunker relys on their creative power. Often lawyers use these sorts of tactics to discredit and cast doubt on testimony or witnesses. Often somone looking to debunk somethin will point something that has been written in this sort of pose and claim with certainty that the event or cliam has been debunked or figured out.  To cast some light on this creative process I want to try my hand at it. Post a true story that you know happened and ill see how creatively skeptical I can be. Note this is an exercise it dosnt mean I don't believe you.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#2    toast

toast

    President of the Galaxy

  • Member
  • 2,714 posts
  • Joined:24 Nov 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany

  • WARNING!REALITY ADVISORY!
    Posts by this user may contain
    statements that may offend
    publishers of pics/clips of
    supposed UFO/alien sightings.

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:35 PM

Whut muns dubunking?

"I think enormous harm is done by religion – not just in the name of religion, but actually by religion." - Steven Weinberg -  
"Don't kill the golden goose." - Malcolm McLaren -
"I am discounting the reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?" - Stephen Hawking -
"Good drivers do have smashed insects on the side windows" - Walter Röhrl -

#3    George Ford

George Ford

    Shadow Slayer

  • Member
  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined:02 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunderland UK

  • "Quickly, I require your fingers."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:36 PM

Ok,

does it have to be paranormal or any story?

“Extraordinary claims require extraoardinary evidence”

~
Carl Sagan

#4    Kenemet

Kenemet

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2014

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:36 PM

Tyrannosaurs lived in Alaska during the end of the Cretaceous period.  There is a pygmy tyrannosaur from that area called Nanuqsaurus.  It is about the size of a horse.

Apply skepticism.


#5    George Ford

George Ford

    Shadow Slayer

  • Member
  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined:02 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunderland UK

  • "Quickly, I require your fingers."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:37 PM

View PostKenemet, on 17 April 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Tyrannosaurs lived in Alaska during the end of the Cretaceous period.  There is a pygmy tyrannosaur from that area called Nanuqsaurus.  It is about the size of a horse.

Apply skepticism.

"Post a true story that you know happened" It is my understanding that you have to relate to the story due to personal experience to it. You just posted hear say. OP please clarify.

Edited by bulveye, 17 April 2014 - 05:39 PM.

“Extraordinary claims require extraoardinary evidence”

~
Carl Sagan

#6    redhen

redhen

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,825 posts
  • Joined:14 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Samsara

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:40 PM

True story; "I think, therefore I am."


I await your refutation with joyful anticipation.


#7    Kenemet

Kenemet

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2014

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:51 PM

View Postbulveye, on 17 April 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

"Post a true story that you know happened" It is my understanding that you have to relate to the story due to personal experience to it. You just posted hear say. OP please clarify.
In fact, a friend of mine worked on this project, and that was the basic information I got.  So it meets the qualifications.

Edited by Kenemet, 17 April 2014 - 05:52 PM.


#8    George Ford

George Ford

    Shadow Slayer

  • Member
  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined:02 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunderland UK

  • "Quickly, I require your fingers."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:59 PM

View PostKenemet, on 17 April 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

In fact, a friend of mine worked on this project, and that was the basic information I got.  So it meets the qualifications.

So you are saying that a friend told you? Cos a friend told me he saw a bigfoot once... ;)

“Extraordinary claims require extraoardinary evidence”

~
Carl Sagan

#9    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,846 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:02 PM

View Postbulveye, on 17 April 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Ok,

does it have to be paranormal or any story?
Nope in fact the more mundane the better.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#10    George Ford

George Ford

    Shadow Slayer

  • Member
  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined:02 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunderland UK

  • "Quickly, I require your fingers."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:08 PM

OK,

I went out running about 2 years ago during the summer and saw a mouse climbing a dandelion stalk, I stopped to watch. The dandelion bent a little more the higher the mouse got until the head was touching the ground. The mouse climbed to the head and as it was on the ground it let go of the stem and the plant sprung back to normal again. The mouse seemed startled at the sudden movement and could not work out where the dandelion head had gone. I then continued running.

“Extraordinary claims require extraoardinary evidence”

~
Carl Sagan

#11    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,846 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:16 PM

View PostKenemet, on 17 April 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Tyrannosaurs lived in Alaska during the end of the Cretaceous period.  There is a pygmy tyrannosaur from that area called Nanuqsaurus.  It is about the size of a horse.

Apply skepticism.
The first thing that  is clear that they only found parts of a head. What can they really day about the whole  animal.

"What scientists know about Nanuqsaurus hoglundi comes from just a few fragments: The top part of a skull section, part of a lower jaw, and part of an upper facial jawbone."

http://www.cnn.com/2...scovery-alaska/

How do we really know its not just T. rex with a genetic defect. Like microcephalic in humans. Especially since its the only type of that's been found. And it's only a few bones. I realize how nice it is to find a new dinosaur, I'm sure it would make some archeologists career, but shouldn't we at least wait until we find another skeleton before proclaiming to the world a new cousin of the trex has been found. I have seen immature and deformed   adolescent animals in many species, there is no reason that I can see to Jump to any conclusions just yet.


"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#12    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,846 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:18 PM

View PostKenemet, on 17 April 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:


In fact, a friend of mine worked on this project, and that was the basic information I got.  So it meets the qualifications.
Oh that is interestining. Are you sure you are not just trying to help him gain some noteriety?

Edited by White Crane Feather, 17 April 2014 - 06:19 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#13    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,846 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:22 PM

View Postbulveye, on 17 April 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

OK,

I went out running about 2 years ago during the summer and saw a mouse climbing a dandelion stalk, I stopped to watch. The dandelion bent a little more the higher the mouse got until the head was touching the ground. The mouse climbed to the head and as it was on the ground it let go of the stem and the plant sprung back to normal again. The mouse seemed startled at the sudden movement and could not work out where the dandelion head had gone. I then continued running.
Yeah right. That's like something out of a Tom an jetty cartoon. That must have been a pretty small mouse I have never in my life seen dandelion stalk that could support the weight of a mouse even a little bit. It's all anecdotal anyway. Either that mouse was the size of a quarter or that dandelion stalk could have been a world record flower.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#14    George Ford

George Ford

    Shadow Slayer

  • Member
  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined:02 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunderland UK

  • "Quickly, I require your fingers."

Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:24 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 17 April 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

Yeah right. That's like something out of a Tom an jetty cartoon. That must have been a pretty small mouse I have never in my life seen dandelion stalk that could support the weight of a mouse even a little bit. It's all anecdotal anyway. Either that mouse was the size of a quarter or that dandelion stalk could have been a world record flower.

Well I think the dandelion was normal size but the mouse was small. I think it must have been a juvenile.

“Extraordinary claims require extraoardinary evidence”

~
Carl Sagan

#15    Kenemet

Kenemet

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2014

Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:30 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 17 April 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

The first thing that  is clear that they only found parts of a head. What can they really day about the whole  animal.

"What scientists know about Nanuqsaurus hoglundi comes from just a few fragments: The top part of a skull section, part of a lower jaw, and part of an upper facial jawbone."

http://www.cnn.com/2...scovery-alaska/

How do we really know its not just T. rex with a genetic defect. Like microcephalic in humans. Especially since its the only type of that's been found. And it's only a few bones. I realize how nice it is to find a new dinosaur, I'm sure it would make some archeologists career, but shouldn't we at least wait until we find another skeleton before proclaiming to the world a new cousin of the trex has been found. I have seen immature and deformed   adolescent animals in many species, there is no reason that I can see to Jump to any conclusions just yet.

* It's paleontologists, not archaeologists.  There's a huge difference.
* I happen to know that there's another piece of the skull, found the day after they sent the initial paper in for publication (my friend found that part of the skull in a bucket of rocks to be prepped, and has a hilarious story about it)
* "diagnosed by the following characters: thin, rostrally-forked, median spur of the fused parietals on the dorsal skull roof that overlaps and separates the frontals within the sagittal crest; frontal with a long, rostrally-pointed process separating the prefrontal and lacrimal facets; first two dentary teeth/alveoli much smaller (measured as maximum mesiodistal length) than dentary teeth/alveoli 3 through 9 in mature individuals, such that the mesiodistal length of alveolus 1 is less than 35 percent that of alveolus 3 and 25 percent or less that of alveolus 4, and such that the mesiodistal length of alveolus 2 is less than 50 percent that of alveolus 3 and 33 percent or less that of alveolus 4."
(hence, tyrannosaurus)

* The nasal-maxilla contact is either smoothly grooved or bears only weak scalloping in immature individuals and more basal tyrannosauroids [2], [6]. The presence of this feature in DMNH 21461 is evidence that the material also represents a developmentally mature individual. (hence, adult)

* No other tyrannosaurid taxon has two reduced mesial dentary teeth, or such a size disparity between them and the more distal teeth in mature individuals as is seen in the holotype of Nanuqsaurus hoglund
(hence, unique and not a "deformed individual")

* The increase in body size by one theropod taxon and the reduction in body size by a second theropod taxon suggest that there may have been external ecological pressure for an optimal body size for predatory dinosaurs in the seasonal Cretaceous Arctic ecosystem of northern Alaska. This convergence in body size was dictated by the effective net biological productivity during the growing season. For Nanuqsaurus hoglundi the resource limits selected for smaller body size, while for the sympatric Troodon the adaptive advantage of larger eyes in the highly seasonal physical environment selected for larger body size.
(hence, small size is actually a reasonable evolutionary strategy)


http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0091287





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users