Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

The Part of Us that Died

religion god christianity

  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#1    Bluefinger

Bluefinger

    I am a Christian, and I understand many don't like that. .

  • Member
  • 4,942 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minot, ND

  • "You'll know them by their fruits."

Posted 26 April 2014 - 01:03 PM

In the story of the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2, God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  Critics say that the story suggests that Adam and Eve did not die.  Why?

In the second creation account, God first made the flesh out of dirt.  Then God breathed life (spirit) into the man and he became a living being (a soul).  Christians argue that the part of mankind that does not recognize he is dead is the part of him that actually is dead.  The flesh recognizes it is alive while the spirit does not.  This can be argued another way.

In the first creation account, mankind was made in God's image.  Since the rest of the Bible argues that God is invisible, that could only mean that mankind was made in the invisible image of God; made known by the things that the flesh does.  The flesh (body), therefore, acts as a mirror; reflecting the nature of the spirit within.  Therefore, a body will produce acts of righteousness if the spirit in him is alive while a body while a body will sin if the spirit in him is dead.  Paul argues in Romans that a person who has been made alive in the spirit no longer satisfies the desires of the flesh.  This makes sense if the inside man is in control of the outside man.  The man has therefore died to sin and has been made alive in the spirit.

What do you think?  What spiritual status does your body reflect?  Life or death?  Why?

Edited by Bluefinger, 26 April 2014 - 01:04 PM.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#2    JJ50

JJ50

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 451 posts
  • Joined:25 Apr 2014
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:35 PM

I am alive because my parents created me, when I die I will cease to be, I hope. I don't think I have ever felt 'spiritual' even when I had a faith I just feel me.

“The wise recognise their failings and laugh at their idiosyncrasies” RJG



#3    Khamical X

Khamical X

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 210 posts
  • Joined:29 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portable Hole

  • My burning SOUL gives life to my holy spirit & body.
    My burning SOUL allows me to retrieve Gold from my dark chambers.

Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:21 PM

There are two creation stories combined together in the bible. The text clearly states that- Let us make man in our image and after our likeness. That creation refers to the later day groups of people coming into existence by way of genetic engineering and nation building by the much older groups of people.

Now one thing I will agree on is the material world is death within itself !  When we make our transition(die/death), we come back to LIFE because everything was spiritual before it was physical.

Edited by Spore, 26 April 2014 - 07:22 PM.


#4    Bluefinger

Bluefinger

    I am a Christian, and I understand many don't like that. .

  • Member
  • 4,942 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minot, ND

  • "You'll know them by their fruits."

Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:19 PM

View PostSpore, on 26 April 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

There are two creation stories combined together in the bible. The text clearly states that- Let us make man in our image and after our likeness. That creation refers to the later day groups of people coming into existence by way of genetic engineering and nation building by the much older groups of people.

Now one thing I will agree on is the material world is death within itself !  When we make our transition(die/death), we come back to LIFE because everything was spiritual before it was physical.

In the first creation story, where all the material world is made, God called everything good.  God then subjected it to mankind, whom He also called good.  So I don't think that we need to escape the material world.  

I think the material world is dying because its stewards (us) are spiritually dead.  We certainly can't restore the material world if our spiritual nature is dead.  We have to be born again in the spirit.  In the book of Romans, Paul described creation as being subjected to futility until the sons of God are revealed.  If we are born of the Spirit, then we are children of God.

Edited by Bluefinger, 26 April 2014 - 08:21 PM.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#5    aka CAT

aka CAT

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 831 posts
  • Joined:25 Jan 2014
  • Gender:Female

  • That, with God, all things are possible
    doesn't make everything equally probable.

Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:08 PM

Hi, Bluefinger.  Ecclesiastes, as a prelude to the New Testament,
would have one believe all is vanity save for the word's having
subsequently become flesh.   Thence, it is the plurality of your
statement that interests me.  

Please quote Paul's describing "creation as being subjected to
futility until the sons of God are revealed."


#6    Bluefinger

Bluefinger

    I am a Christian, and I understand many don't like that. .

  • Member
  • 4,942 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minot, ND

  • "You'll know them by their fruits."

Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:52 PM

View Postaka CAT, on 26 April 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

Hi, Bluefinger.  Ecclesiastes, as a prelude to the New Testament,
would have one believe all is vanity save for the word's having
subsequently become flesh.   Thence, it is the plurality of your
statement that interests me.  

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you are saying.  In a common man's language, what are you getting at?

Quote

Please quote Paul's describing "creation as being subjected to
futility until the sons of God are revealed."

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. (Romans 8:18-27 ESV)

Edited by Bluefinger, 26 April 2014 - 11:53 PM.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#7    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 8,862 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:26 AM

From the very first breath one takes after leaving a womb one's soul begins to rot till one returns to a tomb ~

Que Sera Sera ~

~

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer

~


#8    aka CAT

aka CAT

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 831 posts
  • Joined:25 Jan 2014
  • Gender:Female

  • That, with God, all things are possible
    doesn't make everything equally probable.

Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:20 AM

Bluefinger, my habitually viewing the word as living
lends me a sense of timelessness that overlaps
contexts.  For example, the Son of God's being
revealed involves the same for sons of God; but,
while a son of God is a son of God, the context
that you provided is conditional within a given
timeframe.

third_eye,

Granted that we are born into original sin,
Christians believe one's rejecting evil
makes him rot resistant.

0:-) MGby'all.


#9    Bluefinger

Bluefinger

    I am a Christian, and I understand many don't like that. .

  • Member
  • 4,942 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minot, ND

  • "You'll know them by their fruits."

Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:34 AM

View Postaka CAT, on 27 April 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Bluefinger, my habitually viewing the word as living
lends me a sense of timelessness that overlaps
contexts.  For example, the Son of God's being
revealed involves the same for sons of God; but,
while a son of God is a son of God, the context
that you provided is conditional within a given
timeframe.

third_eye,

Granted that we are born into original sin,
Christians believe one's rejecting evil
makes him rot resistant.

0:-) MGby'all.

I'm still not understanding what you are saying.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#10    Marcus Aurelius

Marcus Aurelius

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,747 posts
  • Joined:07 Dec 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:columbus ohio

Posted 27 April 2014 - 07:24 AM

View Postaka CAT, on 27 April 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Bluefinger, my habitually viewing the word as living
lends me a sense of timelessness that overlaps
contexts.  For example, the Son of God's being
revealed involves the same for sons of God; but,
while a son of God is a son of God, the context
that you provided is conditional within a given
timeframe.

third_eye,

Granted that we are born into original sin,
Christians believe one's rejecting evil
makes him rot resistant.

0:-) MGby'all.

How is it conditional? Just because humanity is a contingent being, operating from within the framework of the equally contingent time and space; this does not mean that mankind is not without an infinite nature or without an eternal purpose. I mean, is this not the GOAL? In Revelation, it is stated that there will be a new heavens and a new earth. This suggests an infinite duration or an eternal present just like what you are implying. It is 'appointed for man once to die the death' but if death is merely a doorway from one method of being to another; how is it conditional to time simply because it takes place IN time?

Posted Image

The Urban Contemplative

http://www.unexplain...log&blogid=2565

#11    Bluefinger

Bluefinger

    I am a Christian, and I understand many don't like that. .

  • Member
  • 4,942 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minot, ND

  • "You'll know them by their fruits."

Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:21 PM

View PostMarcus Aurelius, on 27 April 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:



How is it conditional? Just because humanity is a contingent being, operating from within the framework of the equally contingent time and space; this does not mean that mankind is not without an infinite nature or without an eternal purpose. I mean, is this not the GOAL? In Revelation, it is stated that there will be a new heavens and a new earth. This suggests an infinite duration or an eternal present just like what you are implying. It is 'appointed for man once to die the death' but if death is merely a doorway from one method of being to another; how is it conditional to time simply because it takes place IN time?

Perhaps he means the phenomena of those who die in our present go to be with The Lord, whom dwells in eternity, while we are here on earth and restrained by time?

That is a little off topic of what I was writing about though.

I only meant to insist that those who are spiritually dead don't realize it.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#12    aka CAT

aka CAT

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 831 posts
  • Joined:25 Jan 2014
  • Gender:Female

  • That, with God, all things are possible
    doesn't make everything equally probable.

Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:28 PM

Marcus Aurelius: How is it conditional?

CAT: The revealing of sons of God is conditional within a given timeframe,
insofar as God alone knows when we shall stand before Him as Judge.

Bluefinger: I'm still not understanding what you are saying.

CAT: My belated thanks for your posting Romans 8:18-27 ESV in regard to
creation’s longing for the revealing of the sons of God--the revealing of the
Son of God, his apostles and, with the Final Judgment, those redeemable.  
Though the last part is cause for concern, a true Christian must believe the
suffering of the sacrificial lamb and, consequently, mankind not in vain (i.e.
unworthy as is any of us of the blood of Christ, the Sacred Heart was drained
to the end that penitent sinners be forgiven).

Bluefinger: I think the material world is dying because its stewards (us) are
spiritually dead.

CAT: Universal is entropy, i.e. the life of things runs its course.

Bluefinger: We certainly can't restore the material world if our spiritual nature
is dead.

CAT: Decadence is a process, too.  Insidious, it is much like an infectious
disease in that it is difficult to contain.  Once it has become rampant, God
alone can empower any man to combat the result: systemic corruption.

Bluefinger: We have to be born again in the spirit.

CAT: In view of the spirit of this era, absolutely.

Bluefinger: If we are born of the Spirit, then we are children of God.

CAT: Being that children are born innocent, I take it that you are still
speaking of the necessity of  adults’ being spiritually reborn.  We are ever
beginning anew until, God willing, we may lay down our burdens for a last
time--a prospect that I tend to too much welcome for the futility of merely
wishing creation rid of evil and, all the while, begging patience in awaiting
divine intercession.


#13    SpiritWriter

SpiritWriter

  • Member
  • 3,997 posts
  • Joined:21 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:in the ground

  • How is the appearance of my house that His ghost could come in among my dwelling?

    :-*

Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:43 PM

Some parts of us need to die. When we experience a spiritual rebirth it is obvious and not something that we can deny. To deny it I suppose would cause that new life to die before it gets a chance to grow, and this is what the parable about the seeds getting eaten by the crows is all about. The good news is that spiritual rebirth is available to us at all times. Sometimes it is spontaneous, as it is a natural occurance, just as a flower is prone to bloom, we are also... but we can also do so willingly and cognitively by giving up something, letting that die and walking in the new life.

Many people discredit christianity but its core teaching, or application rather is exactly this process of redemption. Now they may have taken this valuable spiritual mystery and put a cap on it or tried to monopolize it in ways that would prevent an individual for accepting this as something that belongs to everyone.. but the function and action of the redeemer are real and will continue to have its effect on those who are exposed to its reality.

The curse in the garden was that we would be seperated from god and indeed many do feel seperated by god, if that is true, there is but a small skin that seperates us which is easily broken.


The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#14    aka CAT

aka CAT

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 831 posts
  • Joined:25 Jan 2014
  • Gender:Female

  • That, with God, all things are possible
    doesn't make everything equally probable.

Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:19 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 27 April 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

[...]The curse in the garden was that we would be seperated from god
and indeed many do feel seperated by god, if that is true, there is but
a small skin that seperates us which is easily broken.

Greetings, SpiritWriter.
Some define hell as separation from God.
<Edit>
Let die that which separates us from Him.

We are won in Christ.

Edited by aka CAT, 27 April 2014 - 06:24 PM.


#15    ambelamba

ambelamba

    Just an average guy who tries to be...NORMAL!!!!

  • Member
  • 3,420 posts
  • Joined:26 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Entertainment Capital of the World

  • It's good to be mildly skeptical to remain sane. But too much of it will make you a douche.

Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:22 PM

We need more East Asians with knowledge in non-Abrahamic reasoning in this forum. (sigh)

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

-Chief Pontiac (1718-1769)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users