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Over 600 sentenced to death in Egypt


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#1    RoofGardener

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:02 PM

Well, following a judges death sentence on around 500 Muslim Brotherhood supporters back in March, an Egyptian court has just sentenced another 680 to death... in one sitting.

The previous (March) judgement was reduced to life imprisonment for all but about 50 of the accused, but even so that's going to keep the executioner busy !

BBC Report

It seems the crime - attacking a police station - was the same in both cases. (umm... different police stations, but... you know what I mean). Perhaps the Muslim Brotherhood had better stop attacking police stations, lest it runs out of Brothers.

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#2    Ashotep

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:53 PM

When they were in power they shouldn't have been so heavy handed and they would still be in power.

However the people in power now should back off of only allowing police sanctioned protests or they will also be thrown out.  Don't let Islam run the country.  You want to be considered better than the people before you.

These mass trials are a joke.  They should only give the ones that actually killed someone such a stiff penalty as death and only if you can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.


#3    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 01:05 AM

The BBC report is one-sided, swapping the roles of victims and criminals! None of the victims' families were interviewed, their loss and suffering totally ignored by the reporter as well as by HRW and Amnesty International. The lawyers chose to boycott the session which makes their performance 'farcical'.

The accused are facing 17 charges, not just one and these include:
-The murder of 11 police officers and soldiers ( some bodies were tied to motorcycles and dragged in the streets)
-The murder of 44 civilians
-Gravely injuring 452 civilians (in some cases causing quadriplegic paralyses)
-Attacking and burning 21 police stations
-Torching 8 churches, a convent & 4 mosques
-Destruction and looting of Malawi Museum
-Torching houses and businesses of Christian families, forcefully evicting them from their villages.
-Kidnapping for ransom of christian children
-Demand of 'jizya' in return for allowing the remaining Copts to stay...

I have just returned from a long visit to Egypt, I saw, I heard, and yes, I also feared the reality of what ordinary Egyptians have to live through day in and day out at the hands of the MB and its supporters. It has nothing to do with the clichéed, nauseatingly sugar-coated coverage of the Western media. Have a look at #mb-europe on twitter to get a more realistic idea of what is going on in Egypt. The demonstrations are not peaceful protests but arranged armed riots during which murder, arson, vandalism are regularly committed.

As for the last court case, I have relatives who lived in Minya, in an apartment building in front of a targeted police station. The building was overrun, they had to barricade their door using most of their furniture to prevent the mob from breaking in. Their neighbors were not so lucky. The apartments were looted and ransacked, the furniture hurtled from windows, butane bottles were used as fire bombs and thrown on the police station. In such small communities members of the MB are known and are recognizable. The accused were not innocent 'teachers and doctors' quietly staying at home and haphazardly arrested. They deliberately rioted with the intent to cause harm to innocent people in retaliation for the ouster of Mursi. They can appeal the verdict, their victims who were slaughtered and their bodies lynched in the streets could neither appeal nor resist, they were sacrificial scapegoats.

In reality, the picture below is more representative of a regular MB  Friday 'protest' than that included in the BBC report. During these (at least) weekly riots they carry Molotov cocktail bottles, fireworks, swords, knives, metal bars, bird shot, guns and even machine guns.


Posted Image


#4    Yamato

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:25 AM

I can't agree with killing these people.  Many of them had very little or nothing to do with murdering police officers.   Accusing hundreds of all of those charges?   Crazy!   Punishing them collectively with death is madness.   Egypt's govt goes too far.

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#5    libstaK

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:12 AM

It really does beggar belief, attacks, revenge attacks state sanctioned killings of hundreds in mass trials - there is nothing remotely resembling proper justice system in that country.  It is all embroiled with Sharia Laws and Islamic fatwas, it's just craziness and it is resulting in a genocidal bloodbath on both sides.  Rwanda may yet be superceded as the worst genocide in the shortest period of time over there.

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#6    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:41 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 29 April 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

The BBC report is one-sided, swapping the roles of victims and criminals! None of the victims' families were interviewed, their loss and suffering totally ignored by the reporter as well as by HRW and Amnesty International. The lawyers chose to boycott the session which makes their performance 'farcical'.

The accused are facing 17 charges, not just one and these include:
-The murder of 11 police officers and soldiers ( some bodies were tied to motorcycles and dragged in the streets)
-The murder of 44 civilians
-Gravely injuring 452 civilians (in some cases causing quadriplegic paralyses)
-Attacking and burning 21 police stations
-Torching 8 churches, a convent & 4 mosques
-Destruction and looting of Malawi Museum
-Torching houses and businesses of Christian families, forcefully evicting them from their villages.
-Kidnapping for ransom of christian children
-Demand of 'jizya' in return for allowing the remaining Copts to stay...

I have just returned from a long visit to Egypt, I saw, I heard, and yes, I also feared the reality of what ordinary Egyptians have to live through day in and day out at the hands of the MB and its supporters. It has nothing to do with the clichéed, nauseatingly sugar-coated coverage of the Western media. Have a look at #mb-europe on twitter to get a more realistic idea of what is going on in Egypt. The demonstrations are not peaceful protests but arranged armed riots during which murder, arson, vandalism are regularly committed.

As for the last court case, I have relatives who lived in Minya, in an apartment building in front of a targeted police station. The building was overrun, they had to barricade their door using most of their furniture to prevent the mob from breaking in. Their neighbors were not so lucky. The apartments were looted and ransacked, the furniture hurtled from windows, butane bottles were used as fire bombs and thrown on the police station. In such small communities members of the MB are known and are recognizable. The accused were not innocent 'teachers and doctors' quietly staying at home and haphazardly arrested. They deliberately rioted with the intent to cause harm to innocent people in retaliation for the ouster of Mursi. They can appeal the verdict, their victims who were slaughtered and their bodies lynched in the streets could neither appeal nor resist, they were sacrificial scapegoats.

In reality, the picture below is more representative of a regular MB  Friday 'protest' than that included in the BBC report. During these (at least) weekly riots they carry Molotov cocktail bottles, fireworks, swords, knives, metal bars, bird shot, guns and even machine guns.


Posted Image


First off, meryt-tetisheri, your effort here is well appreciated. you showed the "other side of the coin".

What I object most to here, is the "mass trial".

We have in total of about 1,100 people sentenced to death for all of these crimes, considerably more than the number of victims.
Surely, by the odds, some of those convicted are not murderers.

But with the way things are today in Egypt, I guess they have to be expedient. Shame.

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#7    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:43 AM

I rather suspect in fact the number of victims vastly exceeds the number sentenced.


#8    Timonthy

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:58 AM

Heard this on the radio this morning: If they aren't at trial apparently they get the maximum sentence which is death in this case (most accused are still on the run). But also apparently that sentence automatically goes to appeal twice and to the highest court, so most should not face death.

My opinion: I don't agree with the process at all and most likely there will at least be tens of executions to make a statement. Seems barbaric and backwards.

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#9    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 06:06 AM

In my opinion sometimes executions are necessary, but they should be rare and involve affirmative actions by the highest authorities.  Raw numbers don't mean much.

A few days ago a Vietnamese-origin Australian was sentenced to death for trying to smuggle a large amount of heroine out of the country.  Of course this too is preliminary and will go through many reviews and appeals, but the fact that it got in the papers indicates such executions are rare.


#10    and then

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:18 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 29 April 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Heard this on the radio this morning: If they aren't at trial apparently they get the maximum sentence which is death in this case (most accused are still on the run). But also apparently that sentence automatically goes to appeal twice and to the highest court, so most should not face death.

My opinion: I don't agree with the process at all and most likely there will at least be tens of executions to make a statement. Seems barbaric and backwards.
As was the treatment meted out to the victims.  There is no such thing among human beings as perfect justice.  If the authorities don't put out the fire that the MB are trying to kindle then Egypt might have a future like Syria's.  THAT would truly be barbaric.

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#11    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:01 PM

View PostYamato, on 29 April 2014 - 04:25 AM, said:

I can't agree with killing these people.  Many of them had very little or nothing to do with murdering police officers.   Accusing hundreds of all of those charges?   Crazy!   Punishing them collectively with death is madness.   Egypt's govt goes too far.

How exactly do you 'know' that many of them had very little or nothing to do with murdering police officers? The prosecution had photographs and witnesses to identify members of the mob, but what evidence did you use to arrive at such a conclusion? They were idiotic enough, and also stone-hearted enough to take pictures as souvenirs of their 'conquest', these are available on line but I can not post them here. To give you an idea of the extent of their cruelty, one police officer was tied by the feet to the back of a motorcycle and dragged in the streets for one hour and a half until he died. Another injured policeman was taken to ER, where instead of treating him an MB doctor actually finished him off! Tell me please what is the punishment for murdering a police officer in the States, and what are the chances of survival for one who aims a gun at a police officer?

You said nothing about the 44 murdered civilians, nor the 452 injured!


#12    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 29 April 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

It really does beggar belief, attacks, revenge attacks state sanctioned killings of hundreds in mass trials - there is nothing remotely resembling proper justice system in that country.  It is all embroiled with Sharia Laws and Islamic fatwas, it's just craziness and it is resulting in a genocidal bloodbath on both sides.  Rwanda may yet be superceded as the worst genocide in the shortest period of time over there.

LibstaK, though I'm quoting your post my reply is not addressing just your post but the others as well. It is easier than writing several replies.

During his last speech as president, Mursi clearly stated that it is acceptable to sacrifice a few, even a million people, for 'the greater good', i.e. maintaining the MB in power. One of their leaders said:"either we rule you or we kill you". This is the foundation of the terror campaign waged against Egyptians by the MB. There are no basis for comparison between Rwanda and Egypt, it is not an ethnic civil war but an organized, planned, systematic and very bloody terror campaign used as means to achieve definite political goals. Demonstrations are armed, snipers are hidden among the 'protesters', even behind women, they shoot at security and civilians alike then escape on motorbikes. These protests are financed by MB leaders in Egypt and abroad. They hire homeless children and youth to do the dirty work for them.
http://www.emannabih...r-families/  

While the prosecution and courts are handling one case, with all the delay tactics used by the defendants lawyers, tens of other protests have taken place, with new victims, bombings...etc. One of the MB objectives is to flood the justice system, cripple it, and thus render it ineffective. By also targeting security forces and their families, the MB aims to dishearten and weaken them totally. Close to 600 security members (army and police) have been killed so far. Just yesterday 2 bombs were discovered in cars of two different officers in Cairo alone. Another tactic recently employed is to target journalists, and women and children, passers by, who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. In addition, demonstrators torch cars and shops on their route, with the quasi-non-existent insurance, this translates into total financial ruin for people who have nothing to do with either the MB or security.  In the meanwhile, anger among regular citizens is building up and the number of clashes between citizens and protesters are increasing. There is mounting pressure on the government to take decisive action, and swiftly.


While many of you are concerned about due process, may I remind you that Egypt is going through a real war on terror; and as Timonthy mentioned in post #8, the juridical process allows for appeal (twice), then the files are referred to the Grand Mufti before any one is executed.

http://www.raymondib...eda-connection/
(while I do not agree with all the view points of the author, the article is the only one I found with the english translation of the recorded calls)

What I find shocking is the general tepid concern for the lives and safety of the public! The USA uses drones to bomb terrorism suspects in Afghanistan and Yemen, without any due or undue process, innocent lives are also lost yet in Egypt's case all are concerned about 'due process' and it is assumed that the rights of murderers supersede those of their victims. Below are pictures of two young Egyptian women who were killed in Ain Shams, Cairo, along with a 14 years old boy on March 28 by an MB mob. The veiled woman was a 25 years old journalist who was covering the riot. In her last phone report to her newspaper she said that armed MB protesters were using live ammo and were shooting at the inhabitants of the area. She was shot in the head. The unveiled young woman was driving the red car in the second photo, she had a cross in the car. The mob surrounded her car, smashed it, dragged her out of the car. She was mauled, stripped of her clothes, scalped, stabbed 16 times and shot in the back. Look at the picture of the mob, the faces of the crowd and consider whether the police could enlarge such a photo and identify some of the people; then start questioning the courts procedural ruling and due process.  



Posted ImagePosted Image

Edited by meryt-tetisheri, 29 April 2014 - 05:18 PM.


#13    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:16 PM

This is the picture of Mayada, the journalist I referred to in my previous post the other is of a sniper aiming at residential buildings (3 attempts but for some reason I cannot paste the picture of Mayada Ashraf, I give up)!


Posted Image

Edited by meryt-tetisheri, 29 April 2014 - 05:25 PM.


#14    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:03 AM

I apologize for 'nacro-posting', but I have just come across this article which does a better job explaining the trials than I did

Quote

The Minya Court verdict to sentence 529 Muslim Brotherhood members to death in the August 2013 events was met with overwhelming criticism worldwide. An exaggerated sentence, it is, no doubt—in fact, unprecedented. Other than in mass massacres, at no time do 529 civilians end up receiving death sentences.Still, the public, along with the media, needs to understand 1) how courts in Egypt apply the law and 2) the grounds for such a verdict...

http://azzasedky.typepad.com/egypt/2014/04/comprehending-529-death-sentences.html


#15    and then

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:11 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 08 May 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

I apologize for 'nacro-posting', but I have just come across this article which does a better job explaining the trials than I did



http://azzasedky.typ...-sentences.html
It sounds as though the verdicts are hardly written in stone.  This is just another example of different interests pushing their own agendas - demonizing that which they either do not understand or simply wish to denigrate.

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