Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

[AwakenAscension]

A thought is a collection of many things. Saying it exists in the brain or a neural network is like saying that a certain ecosystem exists in the amazon rain forest. If you get too specific about it, you will have to go into multiple correlations, relations, locations, causes, effects, etc.

[Lobotomy]

While some of his suggestions are difficult to accept (namely his ideas about 'Water Memory' and homoeopathy), Nobel Prize winner Brian Josephson is also an advocate for the mind being separate from the body.

[Omnaka]

Physically, thoughts rest in the mind and body. They also exist in the spirit world or consciousness . Spirit is pure consciousness. Where thoughts are conveyed at faster than light.

[Frank Merton]

Thoughts don't exist anywhere. I'm not sure they even really exist beyond being a word we assign to certain mental experiences. We also have sensations and recalled memories and emotions and who knows what else.

Neurons and certain chemicals and maybe glial cells and so on, even down in our gut, have a role in all this, and we can even say this or that thing happens in this or that part of the brain. The brain, though, is mainly about keeping us functioning and all this higher mind activity seems an afterthought, something imposed from outside that is not part of the original scheme, but that the brain has found useful.

At any rate I have no theory as to how what neurons and so on do (exchange electrical impulses and chemicals of various sorts with each other) could possibly generate what we call mind, or even the sentience we see in many other animals. Tends to make me get wooish.

[Davros of Skaro]

Two vids (nothing heavy) on Neuroplasticity if anyone is interested?

[XenoFish]

Learned a lot of the stuff he mentioned through metaphysical practices. To be able to see with your minds eye (imagination) what you want and to make it a reality is a wonderful thing. For the most part I feel that many people are on autopilot. Never taking much time to still the mind and explore the mental wonderland. We have the greatest creative force within our head and what do we use if for? It is both wonderful and destructive.

[GlennThe14TH]

I've done some thinking about thinking.

I believe a thought is a product of the subconscious which registers in our consciousness. The product of "movements of the mind", if you will. Unless we cut open someone's head and have them think about something as we observe, we don't know if that thought would show as a physical wrinkle in the brain, etc. But I don't foresee anybody willing to submit to such an experiment and doubt whether it would yield any results anyway.

Consciousness is different. It's the Boss. But most times the Boss isn't in charge because of all these thoughts pinging and zipping around and seeking attention. Consciousness is awareness, that part is easy to see. But some of us think it goes a lot deeper than that.

[CuriousRey]

Just a sci-fi based theory that would make a good movie probably (if it already hasn't), I think it would be very interesting if our thoughts existed in a "cloud" of sorts, everyone would be linked to this "cloud". Would give a good reason to explain dreams with people you've never met, or in places you've never been. Feelings of intuition, empathy, gut-feelings, all of this could be attributed to a "cloud" error. Hah, sounds ridiculous and in no way do I believe this to be true, but it would be pretty damned cool nontheless.

[Frank Merton]

Thinking about or "watching" ourselves think is called mindfulness. After starting out concentrating on my breathing to settle my mind, I often do that when meditating. What one is doing I think is just "watching" what our short-term memory tells us we were thinking of a few moments in the past, so it is an illusion to think there is a "watcher" there watching.

It is interesting to note how things seem to flow, sometimes connected thoughts, sometimes thoughts or memories "out of the blue" (one assumes coming from the subconscious) meandering like a river unless one chooses to intercede and force something. There are also various distractions (sounds, aches, itches, internal signals like thirst or whatever) that are best just observed and not fought.

From there one can if one wishes learn to go into a wakeful dreaming state (if you fall asleep you are either lying down -- don't try to meditate lying down -- or sleep deprived and need to take a nap). Wakeful dreaming is different than being aware of actual dreams and controlling them (lucid dreaming). That is for sleep time. My favorite wakeful dreams generally involve being a cloud or something of that sort, but I have had some nice long discussions of things (mainly emotional problems) with myself (usually in the form of my father), but these come when they come and I can't control them. They help one be honest with oneself but are no guarantee (delusions persist and can even be reinforced).

Edited July 1, 2014 by Frank Merton

[XenoFish]

The thing I've notice about focal meditation is that in the very start, my mind is like an enraged crowd all yelling at the same time. That chattering mind monkey. After a few seconds it begins to quiet down as my awareness is tuned into something external. I enter a kind of thought-less mental state. Quite pleasant. I think for the most part our conscious mind is the observation one, while our subconscious is the action one. One mind two aspects. A lot of our actions are out of habit. Mostly based on experiences. We can consciously make choices (free will) but if those conscious decisions are reinforce they get auto-pilot status. It is odd that thoughts will just pop into our heads. Those moments of inspiration. I also find it rather sweet that you can pose a question to yourself, forget that you've asked the question and then the answer pops into mind. Where do thoughts exist? Probably somewhere in our brain in fragments. My question is what causes thinking? What starts a thought?

[Frank Merton]

Before asking where thoughts come from I would ask what they are, and I know what they are the way I know what the color "blue" or the feeling "sadness" is. Different sort of knowledge (experiential rather than learned).

By the way, I don't think they "come from" some place or whatever. We make them and they don't "really" exist until we put them into words, and then they are something else. Putting thoughts into words is not good unless you have to for communicating: it slows things down and distorts them to suit the language and the other limitations of words.

[StarMountainKid]

It seems the mind is split between the subconscious mind and the conscious mind. I also think it is difficult to determine which is operating at any given moment and which is thinking and which is making choices.

It's also interesting that our conscious mind cannot access our subconscious mind, but our subconscious has access to our consciousness. This is kind of scarey in a way. What's going on down in there? The subconscious is performing all sorts of tasks and making all sorts of decisions without us!

I think the subconscious is mostly 'on our side', but it can also be neurotic or psychotic, as I would say this is where our basic personalities reside.

Our memories play a part in all this, as well as our knowledge, and both have influence on our thoughts, our choices and our behavior.

It's a complicated system. and I'm surprised it works as well as it does.

Edited July 1, 2014 by StarMountainKid

[XenoFish]

I like to think of the subconscious as the human operating system. We input conscious commands and the subconscious executes them (to a degree). Communicating with the subconscious is easy. Just image yourself yawning, think of the sounds, feelings, and sensations. Continue this till you actually yawn. By doing that you've given a direct command to your sub-c to act. You can generate phantom sensation this way as well. Such as itching, burning, warmth or cold.

[StarMountainKid]

I like to think of the subconscious as the human operating system. We input conscious commands and the subconscious executes them (to a degree). Communicating with the subconscious is easy.

I see it as the other way around. I think our conscious commands are really sub-conscious commands that the sub-conscious puts into our consciousness. I think it seems to go both ways, but the distinction is difficult to work out.

I hold this notion because the conscious self, the 'I' or 'me' is an illusion the brain or sub-conscious mind has created. The sub-conscious mind recieves all input, then passes these inputs along to consciousness.

For instance, it is an illusion that 'I' feel pain. There is just the consciousness of pain. We interpret this as the 'I' feeling the pain, but actually there is just conscious pain without the 'I' feeling it. We add the 'I' feeling pain as a sort of convenience the mind has created for itself.

The self or the 'I' or 'me' cannot be a separate mind within the mind. For instance, when I speak, who thinks the words before I say them? Who is really in charge?

[XenoFish]

Interesting point of view. I'll have to look into it.