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Suspended for refusing to pledge allegiance


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#1    OverSword

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:07 PM

From the article:

A Texas teen was reportedly suspended from school for refusing to stand up and pledge his allegiance to the flag.
Mason Michalec, a sophomore at Needville High School, claims he’s taken a pledge not to say the Pledge.
“I’ve basically said it from the time I was in kindergarten to earlier this year and that’s when I decided I was done saying it,” he told KHOU.
The 15-year-old says he loves his country, but he doesn’t agree with how politicians are running it.
“I’m really tired of our government taking advantage of us,” said Michalec. “I don’t agree with the NSA spying on us. And I don’t agree with any of those Internet laws.”
But his attitude didn’t sit well with his Needville school. He stopped saying the pledge earlier this school year and hasn’t had a problem. But when announcements were moved to a different period on Wednesday, a new teacher spotted him sitting down during the recitation. He also sat down during the Texas Pledge, a special pledge that students in the state make to The Lone Star Flag. She was furious.


Read more: http://www.nydailyne...4#ixzz31oSZRGWg




#2    and then

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:12 PM

Hard one... if the pledge is given in protest or duress then it's meaningless so what's the point?  But If youth see a way to rebel against order it has a way of mushrooming.  A respectful silence in this case should be allowed IMO.

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#3    scorpiosonic

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:12 PM

Being old school, I think he deserved to be suspended. (No one in their right mind would've tried this back when I went to school.)

OTOH, Does an American Citizen, (and school boy) have the right to refuse to say the Pledge??? :unsure2:


#4    Ogbin

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:14 PM

Just another example of free speach being thrown out the window.


#5    OverSword

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:19 PM

View Postscorpiosonic, on 15 May 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

Being old school, I think he deserved to be suspended. (No one in their right mind would've tried this back when I went to school.)

OTOH, Does an American Citizen, (and school boy) have the right to refuse to say the Pledge??? :unsure2:
Does a schoolboy have a right to refuse the pledge?  Where are you from?  Of course he has every right to refuse to pledge allegiance.  Especially as he is doing it as a silent form of protesting the wrong-doings of our federal government.


#6    Babe Ruth

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:22 PM

View PostOgbin, on 15 May 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

Just another example of free speach being thrown out the window.

Another demonstration that "free speech" in this day and age is very much an illusion.


#7    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:28 PM

i must say I've always thought this rather weird. It does all seem rather totalitarian.

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#8    scorpiosonic

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:37 PM

View PostOverSword, on 15 May 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

Does a schoolboy have a right to refuse the pledge?  Where are you from?  Of course he has every right to refuse to pledge allegiance.  Especially as he is doing it as a silent form of protesting the wrong-doings of our federal government.

I'm from the US, and being an American Citizen, I think he should've been patriotic enough to stand up and recite the Pledge...regardless of how ticked he is @ our Govt.

The fact that our Govt. is doing a very poor job right now is a completely separate issue, and has nothing to do w/ being patriotic. He should find a better way to protest, maybe march on Washington, or write letters to his Congressmen, ETC.

I'm not against freedom of speech, but he needs to direct his anger/frustration towards those responsible for causing it.
(As opposed to protesting school policies.)


#9    Jeffertonturner

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:41 PM

Texas parental brainwashing. I bet he loves him some Jesus & firearms as well.


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#10    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:45 PM

*
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I'm sure America must be the only country in the "Free" World where this kind of quaint ritual is obligatory. If you saw it in a documentary from N. Korea, say, I'm sure everyone would laugh at what brainwashed drones they are. But all this business about the Flag all seems a bit fetishistic, anyway. Like how you can be shot if you let it touch the ground or something like that, isn't that right? It all seems a bit weird.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#11    OverSword

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:48 PM

View Postscorpiosonic, on 15 May 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

I'm from the US, and being an American Citizen, I think he should've been patriotic enough to stand up and recite the Pledge...regardless of how ticked he is @ our Govt.

The fact that our Govt. is doing a very poor job right now is a completely separate issue, and has nothing to do w/ being patriotic. He should find a better way to protest, maybe march on Washington, or write letters to his Congressmen, ETC.

I'm not against freedom of speech, but he needs to direct his anger/frustration towards those responsible for causing it.
(As opposed to protesting school policies.)
Is it up to us how someone else should protest?  Do you really think that just being born someplace obligates you to pledge your allegiance?  How about the part where he didn't pledge his allegiance to the state of Texas?  Should he be obligated to make that pledge as well?  I have no problem with this form of protest at all.

View PostAdmiral Rhubarb, on 15 May 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

I'm sure America must be the only country in the "Free" World where this kind of quaint ritual is obligatory. If you saw it in a documentary from N. Korea, say, I'm sure everyone would laugh at what brainwashed drones they are. But all this business about the Flag all seems a bit fetishistic, anyway. Like how you can be shot if you let it touch the ground or something like that, isn't that right? It all seems a bit weird.
Good point.  But I don't think you can be shot for letting the flag hit the ground.  People burn them as a form of protest without prosecution.


#12    scorpiosonic

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:53 PM

He can protest any way he likes, but I don't have to agree w/ it.

It's not an obligation, it's a privilege. Yes, the same goes for the Texas Pledge.

Send him to Nigeria, or Zimbabwe for a few yrs...then he can see what a really messed-up country looks like.

In the US, you can be prosecuted for burning the American Flag.

Edited by scorpiosonic, 15 May 2014 - 07:56 PM.


#13    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:53 PM

View PostOverSword, on 15 May 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

Is it up to us how someone else should protest?  Do you really think that just being born someplace obligates you to pledge your allegiance?  How about the part where he didn't pledge his allegiance to the state of Texas?  Should he be obligated to make that pledge as well?  I have no problem with this form of protest at all.

Good point.  But I don't think you can be shot for letting the flag hit the ground.  People burn them as a form of protest without prosecution.
I read something about that. Apparently burning it is one of the officially approved methods of disposal of it, like giving it a decent funeral it seems. I don't know what would happen if you put one out for the garbage; would the garbage people report you?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#14    Child of Bast

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:05 PM

I have a feeling that if he had simply stood then no one would have been the wiser.

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#15    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:15 PM

View PostChild of Bast, on 15 May 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

I have a feeling that if he had simply stood then no one would have been the wiser.
but he wouldn't have made his point would he.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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