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Testaments - Old versus New


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#1    aka CAT

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:51 PM

One theory as to why the Old Testament (OT) differs from the New Testament (NT):

God speaks to people on their level of understanding.

The Old Testament addresses barbaric peoples,
barbaric because of their having been enslaved.
Abused as brutal, they're illiterate, superstitious as fearful,
and they know no restraint upon they're being liberated.
They are very much like uncivilized children
who, no longer contained, struggle to adapt.

The New Testament speaks to citizens evolved in
methods of reasoning.


#2    and then

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:57 PM

Paul the apostle of Christ wrote much of the N.T. and he mentions many times the "mystery" being progressively (my word) revealed, new revelation from God.  Your reasoning seems sound.

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#3    libstaK

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:09 PM

You can only give people as much as they are capable of comprehending at any given time.  The evolution of humanity is apparent in the evolution of the Word in the bible.

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#4    Kenemet

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM

I think you may want to check some of the history again.

View Postaka CAT, on 19 May 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

The Old Testament addresses barbaric peoples,
barbaric because of their having been enslaved.
Abused as brutal, they're illiterate, superstitious as fearful,
and they know no restraint upon they're being liberated.

They are illiterate, yes, but some of the books of the Bible were written pre-enslavement and during the time when THEY ruled the land and in fact killed off the Ameklekites on YHWH's command.  They were the dominant people of the area for quite some time.  The most sophisticated books (Song of Songs, etc) come after the enslavement in Babylon.


Quote

The New Testament speaks to citizens evolved in methods of reasoning.

Actually, they were illiterate farmers, for the most part.  The  people were under the thumb of the Roman Empire, which controlled and taxed them, and were judged by the Sanhedran.

The ministry wasn't to priests and to the educated but to the rural people, villagers, and the illiterate.


#5    DieChecker

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:34 PM

View Postaka CAT, on 19 May 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

One theory as to why the Old Testament (OT) differs from the New Testament (NT):

God speaks to people on their level of understanding.

The Old Testament addresses barbaric peoples,
barbaric because of their having been enslaved.
Abused as brutal, they're illiterate, superstitious as fearful,
and they know no restraint upon they're being liberated.
They are very much like uncivilized children
who, no longer contained, struggle to adapt.

The New Testament speaks to citizens evolved in
methods of reasoning.

I've heard much the same before. That there are different rules for different eras. Adam had one set of rules. Noah another set of rules. Abraham another set of rules. Moses another set of rules. King David another set of rules. And Jesus another set of rules. And many people say the Holy Spirit continues to revel/edit the rules to us to this day.

Edited by DieChecker, 19 May 2014 - 11:34 PM.

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#6    aka CAT

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:38 PM

View PostKenemet, on 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

I think you may want to check some of the history again.
I'll check yours:

View PostKenemet, on 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

They are illiterate, yes,[...]
initially.

View PostKenemet, on 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

but some of the books of the Bible were written pre-enslavement and during the time when THEY ruled the land and in fact killed off the Ameklekites on YHWH's command.
The Jews have always been quick prove themselves resourceful.

View PostKenemet, on 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

They were the dominant people of the area for quite some time.
Over-domineering in ways, sometimes, self-compensating.  

View PostKenemet, on 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

The most sophisticated books (Song of Songs, etc) come after the enslavement in Babylon.
Solomon was yet overmuch a libertine to appeal to me.

View PostKenemet, on 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

Actually, they were illiterate farmers, for the most part.  The  people were under the thumb of the Roman Empire, which controlled and taxed them, and were judged by the Sanhedran.
Ruralism was the rule...we're pretty much in agreement so far...

View PostKenemet, on 19 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

The ministry wasn't to priests and to the educated but to the rural people, villagers, and the illiterate.
I spoke too soon--
"The ministry wasn't to priests" but to, by then, educated Rabbis.


#7    aka CAT

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:57 PM

DieChecker et al,

I wish I'd writ:
The New Testament speaks to citizens evolved in reason
and not methods of reasoning, as reason suggests higher purpose.

View PostDieChecker, on 19 May 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

[...] And many people say the Holy Spirit continues to revel/edit the rules to us to this day.
The Holy Spirit speaks to the individual--
through him, in him and with him.

We are won in the 0:-) Holy Spirit.


#8    aka CAT

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:53 AM

Kenemet et al,

I found myself being too agreeable minus any context.
Jesus, concurrent with Caesar's and Cleopatra's heyday,
was no stranger to great civilizations associated with cities
of learned men availed of great libraries, e.g. in Alexandria
(destroyed by Ptolemy).

Edited by aka CAT, 20 May 2014 - 01:06 AM.


#9    DeWitz

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:09 AM

View Postaka CAT, on 20 May 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

Kenemet et al,

I found myself being too agreeable minus any context.
Jesus, concurrent with Caesar's and Cleopatra's heyday,
was no stranger to great civilizations associated with cities
of learned men availed of great libraries, e.g. in Alexandria
(destroyed by Ptolemy).

@aka Cat--I find your way of expressing yourself to be extremely simple (not simplistic), to the point and refreshingly direct. I agree with your matrix for understanding biblical realities as stated with a tone of conviction, not a bone of contention.

Edited by DeWitz, 20 May 2014 - 01:10 AM.

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#10    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:31 AM

View Postaka CAT, on 20 May 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

of learned men availed of great libraries, e.g. in Alexandria
(destroyed by Ptolemy).

Just to get facts straight, Alexandria, and the library especially, flourished under the Ptolemaic dynastys. It was Ceaser, Gaius Julius, that set it aflame the first time, then Emperor Aurelian, then it was finally destroyed by Pope Theophilus of Alexandria, a christian.

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#11    Paranoid Android

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:41 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 20 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:



Just to get facts straight, Alexandria, and the library especially, flourished under the Ptolemaic dynastys. It was Ceaser, Gaius Julius, that set it aflame the first time, then Emperor Aurelian, then it was finally destroyed by Pope Theophilus of Alexandria, a christian.
And just in keeping with the facts, when it was destroyed by the Christians there were no books kept in the library - they had been moved to another building. The destruction of the library was regrettable, but it was an attack on the pagan gods depicted in the library, not an attack on ancient knowledge.

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#12    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:46 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 20 May 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

And just in keeping with the facts, when it was destroyed by the Christians there were no books kept in the library - they had been moved to another building. The destruction of the library was regrettable, but it was an attack on the pagan gods depicted in the library, not an attack on ancient knowledge.

The serapeum, which may or may not have been filled with the remaining works that were left. There is no way to know. But that last librarian, Hypatia got it worst. Flayed alive by a christian mob in the midst of a civil war between two bishops.

"You do not teach the paths of the forest to an old gorilla."


"It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired - you quit when the gorilla is tired."


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#13    aka CAT

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:51 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 20 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Just to get facts straight, Alexandria, and the library especially, flourished under the Ptolemaic dynastys. It was Ceaser, Gaius Julius, that set it aflame the first time, then Emperor Aurelian, then it was finally destroyed by Pope Theophilus of Alexandria, a christian.
Bold added:

Cleopatra

Cleopatra, one of the Ptolemies, loved to go and study in the Alexandrian Library. Cleopatra and her brother Ptolemy, had been at war in order to get the crown of Egypt. Julius Caesar heard of the war and ended up getting involved in it helping Cleopatra. Caesar and Cleopatra grew fond of each other and visited the library together almost everyday (Hornblow 50). The people who were on Ptolemy's side of the war ended up destroying most of Alexandria with fire, including the library. Rome's forces joined Cleopatra's troops and helped to stop Ptolemy and his people. Caesar made the people reconstruct whatever was lost, but years of priceless information about Egypt and ancient history went up in flames. The entire library, however, was not destroyed.
http://www.richeast....ry/library.html


Re: Caesars -

The Gospel of Luke tells us that Caesar Augustus ordered a census taken of the entire Roman world, possibly for tax purposes. Palestine was part of that world, so Joseph, earthly father of Jesus Christ, took his pregnant wife Mary to Bethlehem to register. Joseph was from the house and line of David, who had lived in Bethlehem.


Historians agree that Caesar Augustus was one of the most successful Roman emperors. Born in 63 B.C., he reigned as emperor for 45 years, until his death in A.D. 14. He was the grand nephew and adopted son of Julius Caesar and used the popularity of his great uncle's name to rally the army behind him.

http://christianity....ar-Augustus.htm

Edited by aka CAT, 20 May 2014 - 01:55 AM.


#14    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 02:04 AM

Ceaser set fire to the city when his arm was trapped.

"You do not teach the paths of the forest to an old gorilla."


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#15    aka CAT

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 02:08 AM

View PostDeWitz, on 20 May 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

@aka Cat--I find your way of expressing yourself to be extremely simple (not simplistic), to the point and refreshingly direct. I agree with your matrix for understanding biblical realities as stated with a tone of conviction, not a bone of contention.
Thank you.

I try to be concise,
though hastiness often leaves me editing
phrases, correcting grammar and double-checking sources.

You are too kind
as I can only rise to your expectations.

0:-) MGby.





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