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Pope Francis warns against pet affections


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#1    redhen

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 10:14 PM

VATICAN CITY (RNS) Pope Francis on Monday (June 2) warned married couples against substituting cats and dogs for children — a move that he said leads to the “bitterness of loneliness” in old age.


#2    Dark_Grey

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 10:20 PM

*
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Who better than (celibate) Pope Francis to give marital advice?

Exploring your own consciousness is the fundamental right of every individual

Locking people in a cage because they choose to exercise that right should be considered a crime against humanity


#3    Leonardo

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 10:23 PM

Gotta keep the number of paying customers up, eh Frankie-boy?

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#4    Bluefinger

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 11:16 PM

View Postredhen, on 02 June 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

[url="http://VATICAN%20CITY%20(RNS)%20Pope%20Francis%20on%20Monday%20(June%202)%20warned%20married%20couples%20against%20substituting%20cats%20and%20dogs%20for%20children%20—%20a%20move%20that%20he%20said%20leads%20to%20the%20"bitterness%20of%20loneliness"%20in%20old%20age."]VATICAN CITY (RNS)[/url] Pope Francis on Monday (June 2) warned married couples against substituting cats and dogs for children — a move that he said leads to the “bitterness of loneliness” in old age.

I agree.  As a soldier, I have seen this scenario over and over again:

Two people fall in love and get married.  They get a house together.  They have a baby, forcing the mother to stay home with the kid.  They get a dog.  Financial problems eventually stem up because the parents were making more money when both were working.  With work frustrations, financial problems, and a crying baby that constantly needs attention, the dog doesn't get the kind of attention it needs.  Eventually, the mother gets daycare and a full time job to help support the family.

Now with both parents working full time and a baby that needs their attention, the dog gets neglected.

That is the scenario that I think the pope is addressing.  The pope is making a statement that is compassionate toward pets and people.  That is not ridiculous at all.

Edited by Bluefinger, 02 June 2014 - 11:20 PM.

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#5    Arbenol68

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 11:35 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 02 June 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

I agree.  As a soldier, I have seen this scenario over and over again:

Two people fall in love and get married.  They get a house together.  They have a baby, forcing the mother to stay home with the kid.  They get a dog.  Financial problems eventually stem up because the parents were making more money when both were working.  With work frustrations, financial problems, and a crying baby that constantly needs attention, the dog doesn't get the kind of attention it needs.  Eventually, the mother gets daycare and a full time job to help support the family.

Now with both parents working full time and a baby that needs their attention, the dog gets neglected.

That is the scenario that I think the pope is addressing.  The pope is making a statement that is compassionate toward pets and people.  That is not ridiculous at all.

I don't think he's addressing the issue of neglected pets, here.

This is clearly a reaction to falling birth rates in Italy - and throughout Europe.

Quote

Figures released by Italy’s official statistics agency Istat last week showed the country’s birthrate hit a record low in 2013, with the birth of 515,000 babies — a drop of 64,000 during the past five years — and a worrying trend as the population ages.
http://www.sltrib.co...s-love.html.csp

As he says:

Quote

"You can go explore the world, go on holiday, you can have a villa in the countryside, you can be carefree," the pope said. "It might be better — more comfortable — to have a dog, two cats, and the love goes to the two cats and the dog. Is this true or not? Have you seen it?

As Leonardo said. I think he's more concerned with a lack of contributing members in the future.


#6    redhen

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 11:49 PM

View PostArbenol68, on 02 June 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

As Leonardo said. I think he's more concerned with a lack of contributing members in the future.

Exactly, cats and dogs don't pay tithes so they don't count for anything.

I am disappointed. I had high hopes when I learned that the Pope chose the name Francis after St. Francis of Assisi and not Francis Xavier or any other Francis. Francis of Assisi is closed associated with animal welfare, Pope John Paul II made him the patron saint of ecology. In the popular imagination he appears as a medieval Dr. Doolittle.

I was hoping the new Pope would live up to his namesake and do something for animal welfare, I should have known better.


#7    JJ50

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:03 PM

One should have children because they are wanted and you can afford to look after them properly, not because your religious leader tells you to!

“The wise recognise their failings and laugh at their idiosyncrasies” RJG



#8    rashore

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:14 PM

View Postredhen, on 02 June 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

VATICAN CITY (RNS) Pope Francis on Monday (June 2) warned married couples against substituting cats and dogs for children — a move that he said leads to the “bitterness of loneliness” in old age.

The link does not work :(


#9    redhen

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 04:22 PM

Hmm, try this one;


#10    Marcus Aurelius

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:27 PM

Quote

I don't think he's addressing the issue of neglected pets, here.

This is clearly a reaction to falling birth rates in Italy - and throughout Europe.

I don't think anyone would deny the importance of animals, but the above quote hits the nail on the head. In short, like it or not, the Pope is right. The fact of the matter is that in just about every western nation, our birth rates are well below replacement levels. If you don't want to take my word for it, just watch the documentary film Demographic Winter. It will shock you.

And as much as I hate to say this; I have observed a very bizarre phenomena here in the United States where people seemingly ARE transferring the natural, maternal and paternal instincts and care that would normally be reserved for a child or an infant....onto their pets. Indeed, it is as if pets (usually dogs) are now 'replacement' children.

People often refer to their pets as sons and daughters. Others give them their own bedrooms and even full sets of furniture. We put bumper stickers on our car and declare what "breed" of "child" we have. We carry their pictures around in our wallets and talk about them with our coworkers as if they were equivalent to our human children. We take them out for extensive grooming, buy them clothes, take them to "dog yoga". We set up play-dates for other dogs in the neighborhood.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm an animal lover. I have 3 awesome cats!! But doesn't some of this sound a bit...ridiculous?

Because while we fawn over our pets, our birth rates are plummeting, our population is aging to the point that there won't be enough young workers to even take care of the elderly in future decades. We are heading towards trouble here.

And the Pope is right on the money, as usual. To suggest that we can "have it all" without having children; as this Time magazine article suggests, complete with its cover image showing a happy and carefree couple lounging on the beach; just shows how narcissistic we have become as a culture. It is all about the self and self-gratification.

"when she decided she didn't want to have a child. At 26, Scott got married and waited for her mind to change. "It never happened," she says. "And I realized I was going to be fine." Now 50, Scott is more than fine: she's fulfilled. And she's not alone. The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest in recorded American history. From 2007 to 2011, the fertility rate declined 9%. A 2010 Pew Research report showed that childlessness has risen across all racial and ethnic groups, adding up to about 1 in 5 American women who end their childbearing years maternity-free, compared with 1 in 10 in the 1970s."

That quote says it all. SHE is "fulfilled". We are so obsessed with ourselves and our personal pleasure, convenience and entertainment that we no longer even want to dedicate ourselves or make the necessary sacrifices for the propagation of our species.

There is nothing new under the sun. While President Putin in Russia passed numerous incentives and tax breaks for couples to have families, the Roman Emperor Augustus once passed similar measures. It wasn't enough. Many historians have cited the disintegration of the family and a massive decline in birth rates as being major contributing factors to the decline of the Roman Empire.

It seems history is repeating itself and we are going in the same direction. But at least people like Pope Francis are aware of it.....

Edited by Marcus Aurelius, 03 June 2014 - 06:32 PM.

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#11    Leonardo

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostMarcus Aurelius, on 03 June 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

That quote says it all. SHE is "fulfilled". We are so obsessed with ourselves and our personal pleasure that we no longer even want to make sacrifices for the creation of and dedication to human life.

The majority of people no longer hold firmly to the opinion that the universe was "created for humanity" (or just "created", for that matter), and so your accusation of "obsession" is unwarranted because it presumes such a belief.

Edited by Leonardo, 03 June 2014 - 06:35 PM.

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#12    Marcus Aurelius

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:42 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 03 June 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

The majority of people no longer hold firmly to the opinion that the universe was "created for humanity" (or just "created", for that matter), and so your accusation of "obsession" is unwarranted because it presumes such a belief.

While I certainly argue this as a Christian and a theist, it doesn't have to be so...

I could argue this from a purely humanistic and modernist (as opposed to postmodern) point of view. Human progress depends on adequate propagation of the species. How can we expect further advancement and innovation at the level we are experiencing it now...if populations continue to drop off and die out?

Obsession with leisure will not create a better future any way you slice it; I don't care whether you're a theist or an agnostic or an atheist. If we aren't giving birth, there won't be any more Einstein's....unless of course you name your Chihuahua Einstein.

Edited by Marcus Aurelius, 03 June 2014 - 06:46 PM.

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#13    karmakazi

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 08:22 PM

View PostMarcus Aurelius, on 03 June 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:


People often refer to their pets as sons and daughters. Others give them their own bedrooms and even full sets of furniture. We put bumper stickers on our car and declare what "breed" of "child" we have. We carry their pictures around in our wallets and talk about them with our coworkers as if they were equivalent to our human children. We take them out for extensive grooming, buy them clothes, take them to "dog yoga". We set up play-dates for other dogs in the neighborhood.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm an animal lover. I have 3 awesome cats!! But doesn't some of this sound a bit...ridiculous?

Because while we fawn over our pets, our birth rates are plummeting, our population is aging to the point that there won't be enough young workers to even take care of the elderly in future decades. We are heading towards trouble here.

And the Pope is right on the money, as usual. To suggest that we can "have it all" without having children; as this Time magazine article suggests, complete with its cover image showing a happy and carefree couple lounging on the beach; just shows how narcissistic we have become as a culture. It is all about the self and self-gratification.

"when she decided she didn't want to have a child. At 26, Scott got married and waited for her mind to change. "It never happened," she says. "And I realized I was going to be fine." Now 50, Scott is more than fine: she's fulfilled. And she's not alone. The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest in recorded American history. From 2007 to 2011, the fertility rate declined 9%. A 2010 Pew Research report showed that childlessness has risen across all racial and ethnic groups, adding up to about 1 in 5 American women who end their childbearing years maternity-free, compared with 1 in 10 in the 1970s."

That quote says it all. SHE is "fulfilled". We are so obsessed with ourselves and our personal pleasure, convenience and entertainment that we no longer even want to dedicate ourselves or make the necessary sacrifices for the propagation of our species.


I'm in the same boat as her.  I've never wanted kids, even before I had my cats, but for me it's because I'm a lousy candidate for parenting.

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#14    redhen

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:06 PM

View PostMarcus Aurelius, on 03 June 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

The fact of the matter is that in just about every western nation, our birth rates are well below replacement levels.

Yup, since the 1960's, with the invention of "the pill" and the feminist movement, Western counties have seen a steady decrease in birth rates. But homo sapiens is not going to go extinct, at least not yet. All the other countries in the world (except Japan) are witnessing exponential human population growth, with no end in sight. See the thread on the current mass extinction over on the Earth, Disasters and the Environment forum. This species die off is attributable to habitat loss which in turn is caused by human encroachment.

The other side of this population question is all the unplanned pregnancies. United States statistics for 1987 showed that of “5.4 million pregnancies among American women, about 3.1 million (57 percent) were unintended at the time of conception. Of these, about 1.6 million were aborted”  
  Cohen, J, Ten myths of population, Discover, April 1996 v17 n4

To me, this is unconscionable.

I don't think it's the case that couples are purposefully avoiding pregnancies with the plan to replace them with pets. I think for various reasons they don't want kids and that opens up the possibility to adopt a dog or cat.

p.s. I apologize for that cheap shot about cats and dogs not paying tithes. That was unnecessary.


#15    GreenmansGod

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:30 PM

There are 7 billion tailless monkeys living on the planet.  We are on the verge of an environmental collapse.  We can't feed the people we got now.  Don't have kids get a dog, you can always eat them if things get bad. Had I to do it over again as much as I love them, I wouldn't have had them.  They are doing the smart thing, they are going to adopt.   There are a lot of kids out there who could use parents. And a grandpa.

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