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You skeptics ruin all the fun

slenderman

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#1    Rafterman

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 01:28 PM

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As a skeptic, one of the comments (insults?) I frequently see thrown around here is that our skepticism and demand for testable evidence takes all of the mystery and fun out of the world.  Even if this stuff isn't real, isn't the world a much more exciting and fulfilling place if we just have open minds and let our imaginations embrace the "what if" ideal.  Basically, we're just taking all of the fun out of the world and, at the end of the day, what really is the harm in all of this.  If it makes people feel better, then who are we to even question it.

Well, here's the most recent example of what happens when these types of ideas are embraced and taken to the next level.  Call it bad parenting (maybe they believe this nonsense too), failure of our educational system to teach critical thinking skills, untreated mental illness, whatever, the bottom line is that three young lives have been ruined and/or permanently damaged because of belief in this silliness.  And the sad thing is, rather than helping kids understand this stuff for what it is, this story will probably only encourage more belief.

What's the harm, right?

http://www.jsonline....-261534171.html

Charges detail Waukesha pre-teens' attempt to kill classmate

Quote

The 12-year-old girls had been plotting the murder for months, police say.  Morgan E. Geyser was allowed to have two friends over each year for her birthday. This year, she'd celebrate on May 30. That is the day she and Anissa E. Weier would try to kill their friend during a sleepover.

On Monday, the two Waukesha girls were charged in Waukesha County Circuit Court as adults with attempted first-degree intentional homicide, each facing up to 65 years in prison. Their victim, another 12-year-old from Waukesha, was stabbed 19 times by either Geyser or Weier or both, according to a criminal complaint. All three attend Horning Middle School in Waukesha.
Geyser and Weier are being held on $500,000 bail each. The pre-teens attempted murder, they told police, to pay homage to a fictional character who they believed was real after reading about him on a website devoted to horror stories.
Both suspects explained the stabbing to police referencing their dedication to Slender Man, the character they discovered on a website called Creepypasta Wiki, which is devoted to horror stories.


Oh, and before someone counters with "well, that's just an isolated incident", just in the last couple of months we've had news of parents killing their children because of alleged demon possession, children dying of treatable illnesses due to religious beliefs, an albino killed in Africa so somebody could make tea out of her bones, endangered species taken to the brink of extension because some guy thinks magic powder can get his dick hard, a car wreck in Oregon because some kid had heard you're supposed to hold your breath when going through tunnels, etc. etc.  

In 2014, we as a planet should be moving away from this nonsense.  

"You can't have freedom of religion without having freedom from the religious beliefs of other people."

#2    Child of Bast

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 01:57 PM

There will always be idiots in the world as there always have been. Do you really believe that advancing civilization will wipe that out?

'A phantom,' said my Uncle Mycroft, who had just materialised, 'is essentially a heteromorphic wave pattern that gains solidity when the apparition converts thermal energy from the surroundings to visible light. It's a fascinating process and I'm amazed no one has thought of harnessing it - a holographic TV that could operate from the heat given off by an average-size guinea pig.' ~ First Among Sequels, Jasper Fforde

#3    freetoroam

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:04 PM

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What happened to the days when little Johnny wanted to be batman when he grew up, but that all changed when he did grow up and realised it was all fantasy? AND a good fantasy and good memories. But today it seems many can not move from fantasy to reality, thats too scary, because it seems to be getting worse with each new generation.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#4    coldethyl

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:14 PM

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Man when I was 12 I was wondering if it was still ok to play with Barbies or was I to grown up for that?


#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:15 PM

In the old days Superman caught the baddies and hauled them to jail.  Now they have to destroy the city and crush a lot of people and have blood and gore all over.  It ain't the same and what we see now has a lot more effect on disturbed and impressionable people.


#6    Sir Smoke aLot

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:31 PM

Its wrong to say that skeptics ruin all the fun because there would be no fun without skeptics.

...If you’re thinking like everyone else, then you aren’t thinking...

#7    Sweetpumper

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:33 PM

There's human garbage out there. They would've done this anyway, they'd just find another reason, whether it be Call of Duty, The Walking Dead or Allah.

"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated." - Hunt for the Skinwalker

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#8    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:41 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 03 June 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

There's human garbage out there. They would've done this anyway, they'd just find another reason, whether it be Call of Duty, The Walking Dead or Allah.
Maybe, but maybe not.


#9    solxion

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:51 PM

I agree in total.

If only these kids watched Cosmos instead.I know if I had kids it would be mandatory along with critical thinking lessons.


#10    Stardrive

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:21 PM

When I was growing up school shootings were unheard of. Now it's seems commonplace. Imagine growing up in a world with no internet, no cell phones, no video games, and where if you wanted to have fun with friends you used your own imagination to do so instead of relying on technology to do it for you. As a consequence, I fear somewhere along the way all this new technology has caused a disconnect with reality.

Edited by Stardrive, 03 June 2014 - 03:23 PM.

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#11    rashore

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:35 PM

I don't think skeptics take all the fun out of it- I think they are an important part of figuring out mysteries, what's explainable and what's not. I do think that some skeptics are no fun in the way they present their skepticism. As in how they ask for information, or how they phrase themselves in their replies.


#12    sam_comm

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:52 PM

View PostRafterman, on 03 June 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

As a skeptic, one of the comments (insults?) I frequently see thrown around here is that our skepticism and demand for testable evidence takes all of the mystery and fun out of the world.  Even if this stuff isn't real, isn't the world a much more exciting and fulfilling place if we just have open minds and let our imaginations embrace the "what if" ideal.  Basically, we're just taking all of the fun out of the world and, at the end of the day, what really is the harm in all of this.  If it makes people feel better, then who are we to even question it

It's a sad story, really. A chance that the victim is now in stable condition according to the Huffington Post. It's way past the point of any sound belief to downright delusion. I don't think it can be labelled as an ''occult crime'', as the whole  ''Slender-Man'' thing is a work of horror fiction. If it proves anything, it's that such stories can indeed have a negative influence on vulnerable and deluded minds.

I think at that point it's no longer a matter of skepticism and belief-system but mental disorder. If one cannot make the distinction that it's a character of fiction, created from the imagination of a writter, of what is right or wrong, acceptable/unacceptable then there is a serious psychological problem here.

Should any kind of skeptics really bother to ask for testable evidence for a character of fiction..?

Edited by sam_comm, 03 June 2014 - 06:15 PM.


#13    toast

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:33 PM

I would say that there are at least 2 kinds of skepticism. The first one is skepticism as a matter of principle, often practiced without
knowledge about the specific issue in focus but just with the target to simulate smartness. The other skepticism is based on knowledge,
experience and the ability to judge based on this abilities. And that`s the good form of skepticism and I would not say that memers of
this club ruin fun, on the contrary. Looking on the sceptics here on UM I feel that these ppl spread more fun than the FTBs. And not to
forget, skepticism is a key working tool of the evolution. Some 1000 years ago humans p***ed their pants, or so, in case of a sun eclipse
as they interpreted that phenomenon as a sign that the gods are angry but today we know better, due to skepticism in the past. In addition, a good amount of good skepticism saves the world from to get sunk in asininity.

Posted Image
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Edited by toast, 03 June 2014 - 06:34 PM.

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#14    QuiteContrary

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:13 PM

What's scariest to me is not that there was one 12-year-old willing to stab another human being many times, but that there were two!
Maybe only one was the leader and instigator and manipulator and did the stabbing, but for another to go along with her on something like this...for her to find another 12-year-old willing to be a part of this...that's what bothers me the most.

I know stuff like this has happened before, but I'd like to think two young kids like this would live thousands of miles a part and even years apart.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 03 June 2014 - 07:14 PM.


#15    sam_comm

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:27 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 03 June 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

What's scariest to me is not that there was one 12-year-old willing to stab another human being many times, but that there were two!
Maybe only one was the leader and instigator and manipulator and did the stabbing, but for another to go along with her on something like this...for her to find another 12-year-old willing to be a part of this...that's what bothers me the most.

I know stuff like this has happened before, but I'd like to think two young kids like this would live thousands of miles a part and even years apart.

I am no psychiatrist but maybe this could be a case of Shared Psychotic Disorder, or ''folie a deux''.

Shared psychotic disorder, also known as folie a deux ("the folly of two"), is a rare condition in which an otherwise healthy person (secondary case) shares the delusions of a person with a psychotic disorder (primary case), such as schizophrenia.

Source: http://www.webmd.com...chotic-disorder

Edited by sam_comm, 03 June 2014 - 07:35 PM.






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