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[Merged] Infinite and eternal universe / multiverse

infinite eternal universe multiverse galaxy space theory mystery matter dark

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#1    Therammo

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:53 PM

Hello, Im new to this forum and I always was a huge fan of space and galaxies. However past 2-3 years Ive been extremely obsessed about the idea that we in fact might live in a multiverse. Ive read tons of books and Ive seen hundreds of videos talking about the fact that we are just a part of a multiverse that is infinite and eternal.

The problem I face with the idea of multiverse and infinity is that, if we in fact are just part of a recycling multiverse that has always existed and will exist for eternity, then we must face the fact that everything that CAN happen WILL eventually happen.

Lets make it more clear; If you play lottery, your chance of winning is like 1 out of few million, but if you played lottery each day for 1 million years, then you will MOST probably win lottery atleast once.

That being said, if we are living in infinite multiverse, then you will be King, sleep with Megan Fox, be president of USA, be most rich person in world, most handsome, most ugly ETC , ETC, ETC.

For people that doesnt have a clue what Im talking about, can watch ''Universe or Multiverse?''on youtube and check back when they understand

For those who understood my topic, I kindly ask you to post your answer or reply to this topic and tell me your thought about this and how you feel that if we are living in infinite multiverse that you will in fact be born again and experience everything that CAN by chance happen. (you will be king in one life, but in other you will be peasent, in third life you will be sick, in fourth life you will be healthy etc.. )


#2    Leonardo

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:09 AM

Hello Therammo, welcome to UM.

Your questions are interesting, if rather more philosophical in nature than scientific. We can never know if we live in a multiverse, because there is no way of 'measuring' what universe you currently occupy. We are even uncertain if the laws of physics are consistent throughout our own universe, so using those laws as the 'measure' of what universe we are in still leaves us uncertain.

So the question of whether we exist in a unique universe, or a multiverse of universes will forever remain one for philosophers rather than scientists.

As for the notion that, in a multiverse of infinite universes everything will occur - that is not necessarily true. It might be that an infinite number of "you's" exist - but they are all the same "you" - none of them are kings, or peasants, etc. Infinity does not equate to infinite variety.

As for your 'lottery' analogy, if you have a 1-in-a-million chance to win a lottery, then playing 1 million lottery games does not guarantee 1 win. Each 'play' is a separate event, and so you always only have a 1-in-a-million chance to win.

Edited by Leonardo, 04 June 2014 - 12:11 AM.

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#3    Therammo

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:25 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 04 June 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

Hello Therammo, welcome to UM.

Your questions are interesting, if rather more philosophical in nature than scientific. We can never know if we live in a multiverse, because there is no way of 'measuring' what universe you currently occupy. We are even uncertain if the laws of physics are consistent throughout our own universe, so using those laws as the 'measure' of what universe we are in still leaves us uncertain.

So the question of whether we exist in a unique universe, or a multiverse of universes will forever remain one for philosophers rather than scientists.

As for the notion that, in a multiverse of infinite universes everything will occur - that is not necessarily true. It might be that an infinite number of "you's" exist - but they are all the same "you" - none of them are kings, or peasants, etc. Infinity does not equate to infinite variety.

As for your 'lottery' analogy, if you have a 1-in-a-million chance to win a lottery, then playing 1 million lottery games does not guarantee 1 win. Each 'play' is a separate event, and so you always only have a 1-in-a-million chance to win.
Actually if everything is infinite and eternal, that means that anything you can imagine will or has already occured. http://en.wikipedia....key_theorem <<<<< please read this.


#4    StarMountainKid

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:00 AM

The theories of Eternal Inflation and Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics both predict the existence of a multiverse. I think a multiverse is most likely, whatever the reason for its existence.

The alternative is our universe had no antecedents. If this were true, how does one explain the sudden appearance of the laws, fields and particles it is made of, and not some totally different ensamble? Of course, this does not answer the question of why these specific laws, fields and particles exist in an eternal multiverse.

Leonardo said:

As for your 'lottery' analogy, if you have a 1-in-a-million chance to win a lottery, then playing 1 million lottery games does not guarantee 1 win. Each 'play' is a separate event, and so you always only have a 1-in-a-million chance to win.

I wonder about this myself. If your statement were true, however, flipping a coin 1000 times would not result in a probability of 50% heads and 50% tails landing. Every flip would have a random result. The 50/50 result doesn't fit inside my head, but it seems to be true. It's like the coin knows to land 50/50.

Anyway, is an eternal multiverse infinite? It seems to me that it cannot be, as new universes are always being created. Look at it this way: if we look back in time the multiverse is infinite as there is no beginning, but if we look forward to the future, it cannot be infinite as, as I say, there will always be one more universe being created. The future has a boundry in time that exists at the last universe created (before the next one is created).

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#5    Nighthawk9653

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:27 AM

I love this topic and the ideas around it, but the way I believe in the multiverse theory is that it's all happening simultaneously. Like, here in this dimension (or whatever you'd want to call it) I am sitting on my bed typing on a fancy little gadget. But in another dimension, I might be poor and be sitting outside doing something else. Then in another, maybe an apocalypse happened on December 21, 2012 and I'm dead, or barely surviving in the woods.
Like, every possibility that could ever have happened is happening, right at this very moment, but in other dimensions or whatever you wish to call them.

I've read a lot about this stuff, so you could also go the route of thinking of it like a continuously branching tree instead. From the moment of my birth, decisions were made, and each decision and it's consequences all branched off into their own world and the decision and consequences kept happening so there's a continuously branching system going on here.

But, those are two different kind of ways of thinking about it. I kind of prefer the first one, but we can't really choose. We can't prove them either- so I guess it's okay to not be completely right and to keep playing with the theories in our heads :)


Also, just to add, I don't think that we repeatedly get recycled into the same life over and over again, reliving every possibility, I think we move on to other lives..
But, just my thoughts.

Edited by Nighthawk9653, 04 June 2014 - 01:29 AM.

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#6    Therammo

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:35 AM

View PostNighthawk9653, on 04 June 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

I love this topic and the ideas around it, but the way I believe in the multiverse theory is that it's all happening simultaneously. Like, here in this dimension (or whatever you'd want to call it) I am sitting on my bed typing on a fancy little gadget. But in another dimension, I might be poor and be sitting outside doing something else. Then in another, maybe an apocalypse happened on December 21, 2012 and I'm dead, or barely surviving in the woods.
Like, every possibility that could ever have happened is happening, right at this very moment, but in other dimensions or whatever you wish to call them.

I've read a lot about this stuff, so you could also go the route of thinking of it like a continuously branching tree instead. From the moment of my birth, decisions were made, and each decision and it's consequences all branched off into their own world and the decision and consequences kept happening so there's a continuously branching system going on here.

But, those are two different kind of ways of thinking about it. I kind of prefer the first one, but we can't really choose. We can't prove them either- so I guess it's okay to not be completely right and to keep playing with the theories in our heads :)


Also, just to add, I don't think that we repeatedly get recycled into the same life over and over again, reliving every possibility, I think we move on to other lives..
But, just my thoughts.
Yes, the problem with this theory is, in other life or dimension you have aids, and you are imprisoned and tortured while you get sexually abused. Dont get me wrong, but everything that has a possibility will happen. And this thought just makes me sick and mad..


#7    StarMountainKid

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:45 AM

In a multiverse, why are you you in this universe? If there are other 'you's', why are you not one of them instead?

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#8    Therammo

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:51 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 04 June 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

In a multiverse, why are you you in this universe? If there are other 'you's', why are you not one of them instead?
Heard of dimensions before? Or maybe I already lived before this life, or my next life will be ?


#9    Gomar

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:52 AM

...And Hitler was killed in WWI; or he won WWII by not invading Russia;
or he was killed in 1943 by operation Valkyrie and his much smarter generals took over;
or USA wanted to defeat Russia and England and joined the Nazis;
or the Nazis built the A-bomb first;

or Napoleon had won;
or the Roman Empire never collapsed;
or Columbus' ship had sunk...

...or the meteor had missed Earth, thus, the dinosaurs were not killed and still walk around, or somehow evolved to make the internet instead of Homo Sapiens.


#10    Therammo

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:52 AM

View PostGomar, on 04 June 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

...And Hitler was killed in WWI; or he won WWII by not invading Russia;
or he was killed in 1943 by operation Valkyrie and his much smarter generals took over;
or USA wanted to defeat Russia and England and joined the Nazis;
or the Nazis built the A-bomb first;

or Napoleon had won;
or the Roman Empire never collapsed;
or Columbus' ship had sunk...

...or the meteor had missed Earth, thus, the dinosaurs were not killed and still walk around, or somehow evolved to make the internet instead of Homo Sapiens.
exactly


#11    StarMountainKid

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:58 AM

Therammo said:

Heard of dimensions before? Or maybe I already lived before this life, or my next life will be ?

Then there is an eternal personal ego' that is always you? Then all the other 'you's' are not really you, especially if they exist at the same time as 'you' but in alternate universes. I think my question still remains unanswered.

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#12    Therammo

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:03 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 04 June 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Then there is an eternal personal ego' that is always you? Then all the other 'you's' are not really you, especially if they exist at the same time as 'you' but in alternate universes. I think my question still remains unanswered.
you know what molecules can exist at diffirent places same time ?


#13    StarMountainKid

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:14 AM

Therammo said:

you know what molecules can exist at diffirent places same time ?

Okay, but if you exist in different places at the same time, which one is the 'you' you are conscious of right now? And why this 'you' and not some other 'you'?

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#14    Therammo

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:20 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 04 June 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

Okay, but if you exist in different places at the same time, which one is the 'you' you are conscious of right now? And why this 'you' and not some other 'you'?
What if Im conscious right now in this dimension, and ALSO conscious at same time there?


#15    StarMountainKid

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:40 AM

Therammo said:

What if Im conscious right now in this dimension, and ALSO conscious at same time there?

That would imply two separate consciousness. If somehow both 'you's' could meet, would both consciousnesses meld into one? Or, would you be you, and the other you appear as someone else?

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