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Birds are Dinosaurs thread


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#31    kikuchiyo

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 08:22 AM

thanks for the insight, but I already got the information i needed. The mechanism of questions and answers lead me to a satisfying conclusion.

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#32    firefemme1202

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 08:40 AM

I had to give my opinions on this even though you're satisfied Chi, you're questions were just so compelling to answer original.gif

QUOTE(Noob Siabot @ Nov 18 2004, 05:56 PM)
You make a very good and interesting aguement, kikuchiyo. Well, to answer your questions:
1.If Humans were created by god, who created god?
2.If Humans do come from a "genesis" couple does it mean that all humans are inbred?
3.If Humans are created from two sets of genetic backround why is there so many genetic diversity?
4.So god created the dinosaur and just thought, aw booooring, byebye now.

1. God is timeless. He's always existed. He has no beginningand no end. This concept is obviously hard to deal with because we are so bound by time and our physical universe.

2.In a sense yes. They've traced the lineage of human (through the emniotic fluid and the placenta) all back to 1 original mother. Plus, when the first humans where on earth, they where all in 1 area, and so there where no dominant or reccesive triats yet. those would develope later.

3.The reason for this diversity is due to the different regions from where people live. In a sense, it's due to horizontal evolution. I mean, the people that first moved to and inhabited asia over a few generations developed an extra layer of fat around their eyes due to the cold environment. People in Africa have darker skin because they live in a hot and very sunny environment.

4.I don't think so. No one (religious or non-religious) would know the answer to this one. My guess would be that the flood (if you believe in it) was responsible or that if there are any left, they would live in the deepest jungles of Africa. I mean, God's not stupid. Could you imagine a T-Rex in modern times? Either we would have killed them all off as trophies or we would all be eaten by dinos.

As far as life being created in the lab, I have yet to see or even hear of any laboratory that has taken a mix of non-living chemicals and created a life.

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#1) IF there was a God, I agree, he wouldn't have been created, he just IS and always WAS.  However, for those that don't believe in God, it's the same thing.  The universe has always existed, it was never anything, and over a long span of time it just compressed adn formed what we know as our universe.  In a sense, our universe could be God considering it has always been, it was never nothing, and it created what we know today.

#2) And this goes to Insight and others as well.  The one common woman fact goes back about 20-30 thousand years, however, scientists are NOT saying she was the FIRST woman.  They have merely stated that it is the one woman who would have, apparently, a long and strong family tree to put it simply.  A dip in the population of the world (ice ages or other reasons) leaves the strong to survive.  This one common woman found in many people, but has not yet been proven in ALL of humanity, would have been one of the strong women whose genetics survived the dip in population.  But it has NOT yet been proven that all of humanity shares the same lineage to this particular woman.  

#3) I think everyone can agree with this one original.gif

#4) There is a space in our galaxy between one of our nine planets, I believe the space occurs between Neptune and Pluto, where scientists seem to feel there is such a large gap that a tenth planet would have been there and there is a lot asteroids circling the ecliptic path they think is the remains of that planet still in it's orbit.  Our galaxy has a lot of space debris, asteroids, meteors, this tenth planet could have easily been hit and broke apart.  So it's not unusual that a large enough asteroid would have hit our Earth to cause a catastrophe large enough to do away with dinosaurs.  They lasted a very long time, humanity isn't even near a tiny percentage of the amount of time dinosaurs existed.

QUOTE(seeking @ Nov 18 2004, 07:08 PM)
back in ancient times people invented "gods" to explain away what they did not understand, to them the sun rising everyday had to be due to something more powerful becasue in those times they did not have the knowledge needed to understand the idea of space and a solar system, today we still do not understand things such as life and death and therefore, history repeating itsself, we have created a god to explain away what we do not understand because we do not have the knowledge to explain it in any other way, we do however, or some of us anyway, try to further our knowledge and understanding by comming up with ideas to try to explain what we dont know (evolution, big bang), no one just through some wheels on a chair and called it a car, there were ideas that where created first trying to solve the problem at hand

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This I agree with.  If the Bible is the book that humanity was to follow as God's words in a sense, then why wasn't it created at the beginning of humanity?  Why let thousands of years go by before this book came out?  I don't think a God would have purposely caused a creation considered to be of his own form be submitted to limbo in an afterlife forever because the BIBLE wasn't around.  And using the sayin that evil put many religions on Earth so that people will find it harder to choose the right religion and follow the right holy book and God is ludacris.  At the rate humanity is going, Islam will be the reigning religion within a couple centuries.  What will Christians do then?  RELIGION has lasted how long? Been considered the way of life for how long?  Only in the last couple thousand years has religion become what we know it as today.  In a thousand years, what will be the dominant religion?  Muslim?  Mormon?  Pagan?  Who knows.  With a backdrop of religions as unstable as our humanities, it is more likely that humans just wanted to feel safe in this unknown world we are still ignorant about.  And know we've confused ourselves so much, we don't even have a good history that would give us indications whether it was evolution or creationalism that humans are here today.

QUOTE(Insight @ Nov 20 2004, 01:36 AM)
If Humans are created from two sets of genetic background why is there so many genetic diversity?

Actually, all humans share 99.99% of the same exact Genetic code. There are only a few handfuls of genes that account for height, metabolism, organ size, pigmentation, and proportions. It's the combinations of these few genes that make the diversity of the human race.

Try to think how many numbers can be made with a 10 digit number. 1,000,000,000.

One billion.

If our genetic code consists of 3 billion bits of data, imagine how much information we have inside us. The number of data bits we have would be the number 1,
followed by three billion zeros. A number so large I wouldn't fit on this website.

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I'd really like to see your sources on this, it's very interesting.

Edited by firefemme1202, 20 November 2004 - 08:42 AM.

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#33    mr_halo

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 10:05 AM


great post firefemme...

now can someone read it for me  tongue.gif

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#34    Noob Siabot

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 08:16 AM

Very very interesting stuff.

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#35    Deimos

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 09:55 AM

QUOTE(mr_halo @ Nov 20 2004, 01:05 AM)
great post firefemme...

now can someone read it for me  tongue.gif

cool.gif

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yeah I know, if a post is too long I don't even bother reading it! tongue.gif

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#36    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 02:54 PM

QUOTE
Only in the last couple thousand years has religion become what we know it as today. In a thousand years, what will be the dominant religion? Muslim? Mormon? Pagan?

I think itll all go Atheist........




proof of devolution?..............no. just kidding.tongue.gif


#37    kikuchiyo

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 08:03 PM

Just wondering

In the case of a timeless god: What is the "value" of humanity, in the eyes of something that have seen millions of years of great beast?- Does it also mean that god creations are something common for it (as being timeless would give It possibility to create endlessly)?

How can we date the year (well the acounted 40 days and 40 nights) of the flood?

According to Lavoisier's work ( Nothing disappears, nothing is created there is only change) can we deduct that god it self can change with time? (whish would explain the lack of "holy" incounters in the past century, as compared to biblical time)

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#38    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 09:54 PM

QUOTE
In the case of a timeless god: What is the "value" of humanity, in the eyes of something that have seen millions of years of great beast?- Does it also mean that god creations are something common for it (as being timeless would give It possibility to create endlessly)?

well, i can answer that, i think. Humans are different from all the other animals in the fact that we have Souls, and they do not. along with that soul comes a sense of right and wrong, a conscience, knowledge of God, ability to keep from sinning if we choose to, ect. anyway, everything created is sacred, 'speical', if you please, because it was created out of God's love, but us humans, the creatures with souls, are 'special-er', as we have chances to please God that the souless do not have avaliable. (that is where us anti-abortionists get all this 'sacred life' stuff, dig?)

Edited by man_in_mudboots, 21 November 2004 - 09:57 PM.


#39    kikuchiyo

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 02:07 AM

well if god is timeless it could create countless numbers of "consient" species, right?

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#40    RedX

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 01:09 AM

Quote


well, i can answer that, i think. Humans are different from all the other animals in the fact that we have Souls, and they do not. along with that soul comes a sense of right and wrong, a conscience, knowledge of God, ability to keep from sinning if we choose to, ect. anyway, everything created is sacred, 'speical', if you please, because it was created out of God's love, but us humans, the creatures with souls, are 'special-er', as we have chances to please God that the souless do not have avaliable. (that is where us anti-abortionists get all this 'sacred life' stuff, dig?)



Now I have to deagree with you on this but I will give you a chance to explain this to me before I state my opinion on this fully. What do you mean by Humans are different from all the other animals in the fact that we have Souls, and they do not. along with that soul comes a sense of right and wrong, a conscience, knowledge of God, ability to keep from sinning if we choose to, ect. because it seems like your saying that animals cant think for themselves or learn to control there actions. Also, how can you say animals dont have souls when you cant even prove if you have one? Whats a "soul" to you? Whats so "speical" about humans? Weres the humens "sense of right and wrong" when they kill/hurt each other for no resin yet other animals only kill when they must inorder to ensure there wellbeing? All together, who said were the only animals with souls out side of humens and the HUMENS that made the "good book"?

Please try to answer so that I can see were your coming form and build and agruement to properly adress this with no mess understandings. grin2.gif O.K.? thumbsup.gif


#41    SnakeProphet

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:15 PM

Old thread, I know, but since it has been revived already, here's something on-topic:

WHY did dinosaurs develop feathers? What purpose did they have? They obviously weren't meant for flying, that's for sure.
It could be some kind of mutation, but wouldn't it be limited to one or two species then?
IF most dinosaurs developed feathers, is it possible that other reptiles did too? Cultures like the aztecs worshipped winged serpent-like creatures. Is it possible that Quetzalcoatl really existed then?


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#42    draconic chronicler

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:38 AM

I still hasn't been established with any surety that any species of dinosaurs has feathers.  There is an unidentified "fringe" of something in one fossil.  Compare this with well devined feathers on Archaeoptryx.  Why has there never been clearly defined feathers on any of the hundreds of thousands of dinosaur fossils, yet the are uniformly found in Archaeopteryx fossils?  This may just be more wishful thinking by people trying to make dinosaurs more "cute and cuddley".

Edited by draconic chronicler, 03 October 2005 - 12:04 PM.


#43    Scriptwriter

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 10:31 AM



You would not believe your eyes w00t.gif  w00t.gif  w00t.gifDinosaurs with feathers

Edited by Scriptwriter, 17 October 2005 - 10:31 AM.


#44    draconic chronicler

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 10:55 AM

Another thing that most people don't realize is that when dinosaurs were starting to supposedly develop feathers and "turn" into birds; real, modern birds had already been around for millions of years, co-existing with dinos.  Dinos and Birds are both archosaurs and have many similarities, but believe it or not, there are some expert paleontologists who firmly believe that the true ancestor of the birds was a kind of lightweight, aboreal crocodilian (also Archosaurs), millions of years before the classic, birdlike dinos were coming into being. And there is some strong evidence for this.

But the idea for feather covered dinos, goes along with warm blooded theories, that the feathers were just for insulation.

As for quetzelcoatl, the translation of his name could mean "beautiful flying serpent" as easily as "feathered serpent"  for Quetzel, is a colorful bird, and Coatl, is serpent.  Therefore this could be the name for just another, universal flying dragon that appear in virtually every world culture.  If these universal dragon creatures are living entities, the same Seraphim dragons of the bible, perhaps in earlier times they amused themselves pretending to be Gods in the pagan cultures to receive attention, sacrifices, offerings, etc.


#45    frogfish

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 11:40 PM

the first and earliest "bird" was found during the mid-Jurrasic...plenty of time for a simple Ceolyphsis the grow feathers...or evolve....BUt if that never happened, dinosaurs and birds shared a very recent ancestor, so they are still closely related....

As for you saying dinosaurs did not have feathers...i would expect something better from you...its common sense, do you not pay attention to paleo finds? apparently, no...bambiraptor, found with fuzz...new unamed dromaeosaurus and Sinorthosaurus-like dinos in China....Sinovenator...and the most bird-like dinosaur of all...UNENLAGIA!

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