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The mystery of time


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#1    Alan McDougall

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:51 PM

The mystery of Time

Your comments please?

Does time advance is ever smaller discrete moments?

Does time have a beginning and an end?

Or does time it flow like a continuous river?

Is there a place where time does not exist, like an eternal now?
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Below are some of my ideas about time and I am not sure all these ideas are unique to me but some of them are in my opinion!

Nothing is as it seems to be and all things are subjective realities to
the location of a particular observer. Everything is relative to each person from their particular viewpoint.

There is no absolute or universal time Example time moves/flows differently on the surface one object, relative to an object on the surface of another at a different locations.  Gravity creates a time flow difference on the surfaces between different objects. The greater the force of gravity the slower time flows relative to an object located within a lighter force of gravity.


There is no universal now in our universe! Time cannot exist without space cannot exist without time, entropy cant happen without time, nothing can or will ever happen without the flow of linear time in our particular universe.

To illustrate what I mean, if we set and synchronized two extremely accurate atomic clocks on earth, to the exact some moment in time, and then hypothetically, in an instant moved one of them from earth to the huge planet Jupiter, with its much greater gravity. These two clocks would immediately begin to record time at a different rates if we could compare one to the other. After say a decade the difference between the two atomic clocks would have become measurably large. Of course I have done no calculations as to exactly how much the difference would actually be over time.

Even the slightest movement between two objects has a real effect on the rate that time advances/flows between them. If you stood motionless relative to person walking towards you, the rate of time flow for him, would be slower than it would be for you. Indeed he would become relatively younger to you and you would become relative older than him. Movement increased mass, increased mass slows down time relative to a stationary object.

Time even flows at different rates even at your head and legs, because your head is higher and subject to lesser gravity and your legs are lower and moving differently relative to the rest of your torso.

The effects on the rate of time flow in the two above paragraphs is unimaginable tiny, even almost infinitesimal, but nevertheless real and measurable with the extremely accurate means we now possess.

Another way I also like to imagine time, is to think of time, is that time might be likened to a sort of almost infinitely stretchable elastic band The closer one gets to the speed of light, the greater the elastic band will stretch behind you, causing time behind you to flow/stretch at a faster rate at your rear, and at compress the hypothetical elastic band in front of you causing time to flow at slower rate in front of you. Maybe this idea would also have merit, if I equated my hypothetical elastic band for the fabric of space, after all space and time are interlinked reality of the same cosmic fundamental makeup of the universe.



Start of journey
Time

Band....1 3 4 5....SS....1 3 4 5....Band

      Near Light Speed and effect on the flow of time

Band ......1....... 2..........3..............4..................5....SS....1234....Band (SS =Space Ship)

Albert Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, is no longer a theory, but proven fact. Extremely accurate precision atomic clocks on fast moving spacecraft or long haul airplanes have detected the time dilation effect as a true phenomenon and have proven that was correct. He truly was an amazing man! I know this is most likely obvious to members, but I put it down in case a guest reads this thread, who does not posses the knowledge of General Relativity

Movement relative to time

Stop all the time measurements in the universe and all movement will still continue unaffected.

However if we could hypothetically stop all movement in the universe and freeze it at absolute zero would time still be a factor or reality because in a state of absolute zero movement, nothing can happen or will ever happen again?

The twin paradox describes what happens to time at near the speed of light. Identical twins aged 25, one remains on earth, and the other boards a spacecraft and travels at close to the speed of light, on a voyage to the star system Alpha Centauri, and back, some 4 light years from earth. Ten years later he returns to earth to returns having aged only one year (approximate) subjective time but is now 26 years of age biologically, compared to his now 10 years biological older 35 twin brother who had remained on earth.

Although the were born identical twins, the one who went to the stars looks much younger than his brother and is in reality only 26 years of age biologically While his brother twin looks much older and is really now biologically 35 years of age. The nearer you get to the speed of light the greater the affect of the time dilation becomes.

In theory if you could have the unimaginable amount of energy to come within the nearest fraction of the speed of light, and traveled to a very distant galaxy, you might come out of your journey at the dying moments of the universe with our sun and planet you left behind, long gone and just cosmic ashes of the final breakup of the universe.

The physics as far as present knowledge are concerned, only allows for one for travel into the future, going back into the past is impossible, because of some serious paradoxes, such as returning the past and killing your grandfather. Special relativity also limits one to travel only into the future, but extremely high speeds relativity, sort of deceives in that one might suppose, that at your journeys end, that you have jumped into the far future, when in fact all you have done is you advance into the future at a normal biological rate, relative to you and the spaceship. Although people back home are also advancing into the future like you are in your distant spaceship.  However, back home the clocks relative to yours on the spaceship are going much much faster, but both of you are just going into your own relative time zone futures. Time is an odd old thing?


Space and time are different realities of the same thing and one cannot exist without the other and but are meaningless concepts without moment of things from the quantum world right up to the macro realities of the larger universe.

It is hypothetically possible to go to the far future if we had the almost unimaginable amount of enough energy needed to push our space ship to near light speed, but only to the future and sadly you could never return to our own time you left behind at the beginning of our journey.

Another view about time is that it is just an illusion, a purely human construct of mankind, designed for convenience in order to measure a perceived “past”, “present” and “future”. The illusion of “time” on Earth is maintained by means of a scientific measurement of the relative positions of the Earth and the Sun in the physical three dimensional Universe in order to observe the seasons and the time the Earth takes for a complete rotation relative to the Sun in the measurement of ongoing “time”, in turn measured by various physical instruments such as clocks, calendars and charts.

Albert Einstein did say in humor, "that time is an illusion and something we invented to prevent everything from happening at once"

Maybe there is only Now, the Eternal Now where everything that has happened, is happening and ever will happen, relative to the Earth concept of time already exists, always has existed and always will exist?

Since the beginning of the human concept of “time” mankind has sought to live life based around that concept, thereby always thinking in terms of past present and future rather than Now. The Universe and the Energy we influence in the creation of our own individual realities have no concept of time, only Now, and as a result there is a no past or future irrespective of how much mankind forces his own existence around those erroneous notions. This tendency to force everything to happen in compliance with a notional concept of “time” has a very profound effect on the lives of those who do not fully understand these realities.

]Spiritual aspects of time.

The entire Universe from The Source, The First Cause, Divine is Energy vibrating at a frequency relative to The Source, The Source being the very center of the Universe of Energy and the physical world being the outermost shell, the physical three dimensional Universe as observed by means of the physical senses and by science, existing at the lowest rate of vibration and the highest density. It should also be mentioned that the physical Universe of matter represents only a tiny fraction of the Universes Energy and vibration in its entirety.

All Energy might be influenced by the causation of consciousness, manifesting as an observable effect in the plane at which the consciousness originated.

Everything that happens, ever happened and ever will happen in the entire Universe therefore, including the physical world, first originated as a consciousness originating from the Mind of Being, and whose consciousness in turn has its corresponding effect on the Energy of the Causal Spheres of the Universe while becoming the corresponding and potentially observable effect.

The Ultimate act of Creation by The First Cause, The Source, Divine of the entire Universe in all of its glorious spheres, planes and dimensions originated in the very beginning as a consciousness in the Mind of Divine Intelligence in my opinion.

Therefore, do we all exist as “expressions”, within the Mind of Divine, made in the true Spiritual likeness of the Divine.

The great astronomer Sir James Jean  once said, the more he looked at the universe through his telescope the less like a great machine it became and more like  " A Great Thought" I like that description

© Copyright  Alan McDougall 2014

My quote, "The truth is the truth remains the truth no matter what we believe or do not believe even in total ignorance the truth is the truth!  What is absolute Truth?  What is the source of absolute truth  What is the source of life
Let the unknown become known.
We must know what we do not know (And admit it)
Regards Alan

#2    stormbay

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:45 AM

Time is a human constructed concept and has no relevance within the reality of the universe. The complete confusion created by trying to force a time line for the start of the universe, is ridiculously primitive and not representative of the facts.

Our viewable and non viewable universe, consists of an innumerable number of dimensional realities, interacting within and without each other. Life in all these dimensions would see their time lines as totally different to every other one, because of their conceptual understanding of their dimensionary status. Which makes time is an illogical fantasy, as is the big bang and the search for the holy grail of energy, fusion, as there is no such thing.

It may well be ideological humans are the only life form which attaches itself to a time line, as it fits with their requirement to conceptualise everything into fantasy, to suit their deluded approach. Which makes it very hard for evolving humans to step outside that concept and see real evolution and not, be locked into an enslaving fanciful concept, called time.

Edited by stormbay, 08 June 2014 - 12:50 AM.


#3    RoofGardener

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:51 AM

Time is simply a measure of the rate at which history is created.

Energy is contagious
Enthusiasm spreads
Tides respond to lunar gravitation
Everything turns in synchronous relation

#4    StarMountainKid

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:03 AM

Very nice.

Alan McDougall said:

There is no universal now in our universe!

I've been trying to show there is a universal now in our universe here for some time. No one seems to understand what I'm trying to say, though. Although it is correct that the because of the relativity of simueltaneity and the difference in relative elapsed time in different frames of reference, there is in a sense a universal now.

If observer A observes an event at 12:00, and observer B observes the event at 12:10 because he is farther away from the event than A, and they both were able to instantly communicate with each other, at 12:00 when A observes the event and signals B instantly, both A and B would consider that instant the 'now', the present moment. The converse is true, as well.

In different relative frames of reference, A's and B's clocks ticking at different relative rates, an instant communication between them would occur in both A and B's 'now's.

So in this sense, everyone's 'now' is the same. Instant communication is only possible between entangled particles. I think this idea could be prooved correct if an entanglement experiment could be performed by observers in different relative time frames. The instant communication between particles would occur in both particle's 'now', no matter the difference of the relative elapsing of time in their frames of reference.

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#5    sepulchrave

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:44 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 08 June 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

I've been trying to show there is a universal now in our universe here for some time. No one seems to understand what I'm trying to say, though. Although it is correct that the because of the relativity of simueltaneity and the difference in relative elapsed time in different frames of reference, there is in a sense a universal now.
There isn't a meaningful Universal ``now'', because the events of ``now'' correspond to a particular reference frame, and there is no Universal reference frame.


View PostStarMountainKid, on 08 June 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

If observer A observes an event at 12:00, and observer B observes the event at 12:10 because he is farther away from the event than A, and they both were able to instantly communicate with each other, at 12:00 when A observes the event and signals B instantly, both A and B would consider that instant the 'now', the present moment. The converse is true, as well.
There cannot be instantaneous communication without allowing someone to send messages backwards in time. See here.

Without instant communication, there is no way of correlating the ``nows'' between multiple observers in different locations. Since they cannot be correlated, there is no Universal set of events that all observers will agree occurred at the same time.


#6    StarMountainKid

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 03:15 AM

sepulchrave said:

Without instant communication, there is no way of correlating the ``nows'' between multiple observers in different locations. Since they cannot be correlated, there is no Universal set of events that all observers will agree occurred at the same time.

Yes, but this is not what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that all observers will agree on events occurring at the same time. I'm saying that the moment one observer experiences an event before another observer experiences the same event, at that moment both observers are experiencing the same 'now', the same present moment for each of them.

The experience of the event may be observed at different times by their clocks, but their psychological experience of the present moment coencides irrespective of their relative frames of reference.

I think our experience of the present moment correlates to relative clock time or time dilated frames of reference.

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#7    Alan McDougall

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:24 AM

View PostRoofGardener, on 08 June 2014 - 12:51 AM, said:

Time is simply a measure of the rate at which history is created.

View PostStarMountainKid, on 08 June 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

Very nice.



I've been trying to show there is a universal now in our universe here for some time. No one seems to understand what I'm trying to say, though. Although it is correct that the because of the relativity of simueltaneity and the difference in relative elapsed time in different frames of reference, there is in a sense a universal now.

If observer A observes an event at 12:00, and observer B observes the event at 12:10 because he is farther away from the event than A, and they both were able to instantly communicate with each other, at 12:00 when A observes the event and signals B instantly, both A and B would consider that instant the 'now', the present moment. The converse is true, as well.

In different relative frames of reference, A's and B's clocks ticking at different relative rates, an instant communication between them would occur in both A and B's 'now's.

So in this sense, everyone's 'now' is the same. Instant communication is only possible between entangled particles. I think this idea could be prooved correct if an entanglement experiment could be performed by observers in different relative time frames. The instant communication between particles would occur in both particle's 'now', no matter the difference of the relative elapsing of time in their frames of reference.

I think I see what you mean, it is like a person far up flying in a helicopter, looking at what is going on in two separate villages, if we extrapolate this concept further say from the viewpoint of a satellite 24 thousand miles up, it would observer at the same moment, what is happening in different times zones in different countries, but relative to the satellites point of view they are all happening in the same moment or  "now"

Maybe God does something like this, sitting on his throne in heaven, in an eternal 'now' looking at all the events happening in the universe from one single universal moment or now? :yes:

My quote, "The truth is the truth remains the truth no matter what we believe or do not believe even in total ignorance the truth is the truth!  What is absolute Truth?  What is the source of absolute truth  What is the source of life
Let the unknown become known.
We must know what we do not know (And admit it)
Regards Alan

#8    StarMountainKid

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:19 PM

Alan McDougall said:

I think I see what you mean, it is like a person far up flying in a helicopter, looking at what is going on in two separate villages, if we extrapolate this concept further say from the viewpoint of a satellite 24 thousand miles up, it would observer at the same moment, what is happening in different times zones in different countries, but relative to the satellites point of view they are all happening in the same moment or  "now"

Yes, this is what I'm trying to say, thanks! Extrapolated to two relative frames of reference this would also be correct also, although it would require instant communication to observe this, which is impossible of course. Nevertheless, this simultaniety of the 'now' is real in my view, though we can never experimentally observe it.

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To see reality loose your opinions.

#9    stormbay

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:17 PM

Everything happens in the now, irrelevant to supposed times zones. Time is an illusionary concept, like god, fanciful, irrelevant and evolutionary restrictive, as it locks thinking into concepts and not reality.

Current ideological cosmological science revolves around time, that's why they are missing the truth about our viewable universe. They claim the age of the universe is “X”, because of time and they deduce this by using what science thinks is the fastest thing in the universe, light. The facts according to the viewable reality is, light may be one of the slowest things in our universe.

Concepts are fine to establish a direction of investigation, but to be really be enlightening, they need to be dropped as soon as the facts question the conception, with reality.

Everything ideological humanity believes, revolves around illusionary concepts they refuse to leave behind, hence the psychological state of the planet and its negative outcomes, under the direction and control of delusionary ideology.





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