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the cross and upside down cross and occult


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#1    LostSouls7

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:39 PM

Ok so this is something that I don't like The pentagram right side up is not evil it's wonderful.
But then satanist just stole it and turned it upside down and put a goat head in there and NOW
it's evil.

Also same thing with cross even though the cross is just an normal occult symbol when right side up.
Well they took that and flipped it upside down.

But how about this? Why not create your OWN symbols.
I would never take a symbol and say hey look at me! I just made this upside down...
you better get scared.. its evillll !!

I think it would be more evil to just come up with your sinister symbol..
that only you know about and let people figure out what it means!

I suppose people do make their own symbols with Sigls and such...
i just always found it funny how flipped the pentagram and cross upside down..
is supposed to be a new symbol.. when its just a rip of of an older symbol...

yeah i love symbols

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#2    dlonewolf85

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:17 PM

The Swastika, which is a Hindu/Buddhist symbol, was used by the Nazis during Hitler's time.

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#3    Aneksi

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:18 PM

This is because those specific symbols were representations of religious figures. To alter them it to deface their representation. it means instead of being in reference to Heaven, it has been reversed and is in reference to Hell. Creating your own symbol would only be a logo, your own emblem, with no power or protection which symbols like the Triquetra have. Symbols are never ending, but they are only for identification. When it enters into spiritual and ritual, the rules change. To create a sigil for yourself is in fact creating another faction that brings glory to yourself as a God/Godddess for whatever purpose. It is not something that should be messed with.

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#4    karmakazi

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 03:18 AM

View PostLostSouls7, on 18 June 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

Ok so this is something that I don't like The pentagram right side up is not evil it's wonderful.
But then satanist just stole it and turned it upside down and put a goat head in there and NOW
it's evil.

Also same thing with cross even though the cross is just an normal occult symbol when right side up.
Well they took that and flipped it upside down.

But how about this? Why not create your OWN symbols.
I would never take a symbol and say hey look at me! I just made this upside down...
you better get scared.. its evillll !!

I think it would be more evil to just come up with your sinister symbol..
that only you know about and let people figure out what it means!

I suppose people do make their own symbols with Sigls and such...
i just always found it funny how flipped the pentagram and cross upside down..
is supposed to be a new symbol.. when its just a rip of of an older symbol...

yeah i love symbols

Similar adaptations have been done at times to incorporate religions, if I recall correctly that is the legend of how the Celtic cross came into being, as an effort by St Patrick to convert Irish pagans.


There was a ceremonial magician who authored occult books and he said the pentagram upside down was evil.  He was disparaging it's use in this fashion, not adopting it.

It was much later that the church of Satan claimed a version of it as their official copyright logo.

Edited by karmakazi, 19 June 2014 - 03:27 AM.

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#5    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:17 AM

View PostLostSouls7, on 18 June 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

But then satanist just stole it and turned it upside down and put a goat head in there and NOW
it's evil.
What is evil about it?

Quote

Also same thing with cross even though the cross is just an normal occult symbol when right side up.
Well they took that and flipped it upside down.
I guess you don't know about St Peter?


#6    eight bits

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 08:53 AM

Symbols are  a way of thinking. I would recommend, if you want to look into it, the book Visual Thinking by Rudolf Arnheim.

The swastika motif is very old, and found in many places. Arnheim (who was a refugee from Nazism) called Hitler the best trademark designer of the Twentieth Century. But the swastika motif itself is not specifically Indo-European, much less "Aryan." Here's a pointer into Native American - First Nations usage:

http://nativeamerica...g-log-swastika/

Here is an article that will take your mind back to when the motif was innocent:

http://www.kirwansco...ry/the-swastika

The inverted cross is also the Pope's emblem, a reference to the tradition that the Apostle Peter (from whom the Pope claims succession as bishop of Rome) was crucified on an inverted cross. That was what Riyeh was asking you about.

So, when Protestants use an upright empty cross to decorate their churches, are they referring to Jesus, or to their own rejection of the Pope's supremacy? Why not both at the same time?

As both the swastika and the inverted cross illustrate, there is no such thing as "the" meaning of a symbol. The whole idea of symbolism  is that the same physical thing carries more than one potential meaning. The power to evoke meaning may be what makes symbols such a useful vehicle for thought. As Sigmund Freud observed, just before taking a long drag from one of his beloved cigars, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." And sometimes not, as Bill Clinton can explain to you. It is what the symbolic thinker does with the actual thing that makes the meaning(s) on that occasion.

Finally, you may be interested in this blog piece

http://uncertaintist...-jungs-science/

which compares occult with psychological uses of symbols, and introduces an essay by William Butler Yeats (entitled simply "Magic") which has much to say about "ready made" symbols as opposed to ones that you "make up yourself."

Edited by eight bits, 19 June 2014 - 08:55 AM.

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#7    Leonardo

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:10 AM

Nice post, eb.

I would like to add that symbolism is not so much about the object itself, or even the abstract concept that object represents, but about our own identity - which changes with circumstance. Who we are depends on when we are.

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#8    GreenmansGod

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:27 PM

Last night I was watching a young man build a kind of wickerman for the Solstice fire. When he added arms I said that looks like a cross, if we light that on fire we are going to end up with every cop and the evening news checking out what is going on.  Being some of us wear white cloaks it is not going to look good.  We fixed the arms so they pointed down.

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#9    JJ50

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:54 PM

The cross the right way up has often been used as a symbol of evil by paedophile priests for example!

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#10    AZDZ

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 02:06 PM

View PostAneksi, on 18 June 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

This is because those specific symbols were representations of religious figures. To alter them it to deface their representation. it means instead of being in reference to Heaven, it has been reversed and is in reference to Hell. Creating your own symbol would only be a logo, your own emblem, with no power or protection which symbols like the Triquetra have. Symbols are never ending, but they are only for identification. When it enters into spiritual and ritual, the rules change. To create a sigil for yourself is in fact creating another faction that brings glory to yourself as a God/Godddess for whatever purpose. It is not something that should be messed with.

This. LostSouls7, your strong emotional reaction to what they've done is exactly the response they were hoping for.


#11    ambelamba

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 05:39 AM

View Postdlonewolf85, on 18 June 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

The Swastika, which is a Hindu/Buddhist symbol, was used by the Nazis during Hitler's time.

B-tards hijacked the sacred symbol!!!

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#12    eight bits

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 08:09 AM

Leo

Thank you for the kind words.

Quote

Who we are depends on when we are.
Amen.

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That is a great story. Happy Solstice.

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#13    Purplos

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 05:38 PM

Marketing is a lot easier if you can use a commonly accepted symbol as your base. People instantly get an idea in their head about it and whatever group is using it can then tweak it to change that idea more easily.

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#14    quiXilver

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 06:44 PM

View PostLostSouls7, on 18 June 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

Ok so this is something that I don't like The pentagram right side up is not evil it's wonderful.
But then satanist just stole it and turned it upside down and put a goat head in there and NOW
it's evil.

Also same thing with cross even though the cross is just an normal occult symbol when right side up.
Well they took that and flipped it upside down.

But how about this? Why not create your OWN symbols.
I would never take a symbol and say hey look at me! I just made this upside down...
you better get scared.. its evillll !!

I think it would be more evil to just come up with your sinister symbol..
that only you know about and let people figure out what it means!

I suppose people do make their own symbols with Sigls and such...
i just always found it funny how flipped the pentagram and cross upside down..
is supposed to be a new symbol.. when its just a rip of of an older symbol...

yeah i love symbols

the pentacle is no more evil than the swastika...
symbols carry meaning relative to the viewer.

as your thoughts go, so goes your reality.

perception is reality.

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#15    himalyanmystic

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:58 AM

View Postdlonewolf85, on 18 June 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

The Swastika, which is a Hindu/Buddhist symbol, was used by the Nazis during Hitler's time.
The intention is most important.

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