Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Time Travel Paradoxes


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1    IBelieveWhatIWant

IBelieveWhatIWant

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 345 posts
  • Joined:03 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:57 AM

Not sure if this is the correct place for this discussion but it was the closest I could find, anyway.

I was trying to sleep last night when I was thinking about time travel and the possibility of going back in time even though it has been stated that if you were to go back in any form other than observation then it could create paradoxes, that being said.
Why would it create a paradox, for a paradox to exist must mean that we are on a set timeline of sorts where everything has already been determined for us because if we weren't then the timeline could be changed there fore avoiding any paradoxes created by time travel.

So I figure that it is either 1 of 2 answers that time travel into the past IS possible but any changes just changes the time line and our future is left up to us and it isn't predetermined or that time travel into the past ISN'T possible but that would mean that our timeline has already been set and everything from the beginning of the universe to the end is already set in stone.

I find this to be very interesting subject I would very much like to hear other opinions on this because I could have a very basic on how this stuff could work seeing as I have very little experience in this field and would like to hear from others with more experience who could shed some light on the possibility of this.


#2    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 17,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:17 AM

Well paradoxes arise when you go into the past and carry out acts that would prevent you from going into the past, such as preventing your being born.

In such a case you can prevent the act if and only if you cannot prevent the act.  This is I think kinda the essence of a paradox, and to me only servers to offer a logical proof that simple travel into the past just simply ain't gonna be possible.


#3    IBelieveWhatIWant

IBelieveWhatIWant

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 345 posts
  • Joined:03 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:22 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 22 June 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Well paradoxes arise when you go into the past and carry out acts that would prevent you from going into the past, such as preventing your being born.

In such a case you can prevent the act if and only if you cannot prevent the act.  This is I think kinda the essence of a paradox, and to me only servers to offer a logical proof that simple travel into the past just simply ain't gonna be possible.
But doesn't that only happen if the universes (there fore all life) time line is fixed and predetermined?


#4    MissJatti

MissJatti

    SuperNatural

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,986 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Where the sun shines the brightest

  • Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:24 AM

you can go into the past, only has an observer, and also to drop your 2014 bottle cap, or perhaps bury your Iphone 5s

Posted Image

#5    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 5,507 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:31 AM

I don't believe in alternate timelines, and I don't believe time travel into the past is possible. This wouldn't necessarily mean that the future is set in stone, though. Our 'time line' could be open-ended, such that the future is not predetermined.

However, I do like the idea that since space and time are not separable, each 'moment' of time requires a configuration of space within that 'moment'. Each 'moment' of space-time exists, like frames of a movie film. The past exists as these separate, static slices of space time.

As each slice is a static moment in time and space, our concept of change is an illusion. This would presume that all future slices of space-time must exist as well.

It is only by the nature of consciousness that we experience change and the passage of time as we do. By this concept, everything has already happened and our experience of the passage of time is an illusion created by the brain/mind.

This is a minority opinion here, as it seems most don't even consider time to exist at all.

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
To see reality loose your opinions.

#6    Whisperer

Whisperer

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 736 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aotearoa

  • "Never challenge the Universe for it will respond"

Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:43 AM

I think that as soon as you travel to the past, your world as you know it ceases to exist because you have left it and irrevocably changed the past by your very presence and actions.
You would carry back viruses and bacteria mutated beyond the time-lines experience, your understanding would impinge on the collective mindset of the current population base and you would in effect be in a position to to be affected by diseases you have no defences for resulting in a hard time for you or an opportunistic moment to rule the world, so to speak.
What ever the case, you would find it impossible to return...
Its highly probable that you would in fact be killed outright as your lack of local language and customs would identify you as a 'stranger' and illicit immediate hostility, perhaps even being taken as an emissary of the devil.
Nothing is fixed and imutable as the universe is based on changes and therefore so too is destiny...

I be Ra...The river of life, the ebb and flow of summer tides...
Make not an image of me, nor offer unto me the limitations of form...
For I be Soul....and I will not be limited...

#7    IBelieveWhatIWant

IBelieveWhatIWant

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 345 posts
  • Joined:03 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:44 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 22 June 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

I don't believe in alternate timelines, and I don't believe time travel into the past is possible. This wouldn't necessarily mean that the future is set in stone, though. Our 'time line' could be open-ended, such that the future is not predetermined.

However, I do like the idea that since space and time are not separable, each 'moment' of time requires a configuration of space within that 'moment'. Each 'moment' of space-time exists, like frames of a movie film. The past exists as these separate, static slices of space time.

As each slice is a static moment in time and space, our concept of change is an illusion. This would presume that all future slices of space-time must exist as well.

It is only by the nature of consciousness that we experience change and the passage of time as we do. By this concept, everything has already happened and our experience of the passage of time is an illusion created by the brain/mind.

This is a minority opinion here, as it seems most don't even consider time to exist at all.
I find it interesting that most don't consider time to exist yet they still believe in paradoxes. To me those to beliefs seems to contradict each other.

Where as if it were one or the other time could exist with paradoxes or time doesn't exist with the ability to change the past and no paradoxes.


#8    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 17,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:41 AM

View PostIBelieveWhatIWant, on 22 June 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I find it interesting that most don't consider time to exist yet they still believe in paradoxes. To me those to beliefs seems to contradict each other.

Where as if it were one or the other time could exist with paradoxes or time doesn't exist with the ability to change the past and no paradoxes.
I don't think you quite get the idea.  I tend to think time is an illusion and the paradoxes serve to prove it.  If the past were a "place" where one could go, then the paradoxes arise.  If it isn't -- if it is just memory and other traces of how things were -- then there are no paradoxes of this sort.

The problem is that Lorenz Transformations are real and measurable.  This is hard to fit in a picture of there being only the present and change being the cause of the illusion we call time.


#9    taniwha

taniwha

    Hi. If im an idiot, then im an idiot for truth.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined:25 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:10 AM

Time travel to the past seems impossible.  Even if we walk backwards we are still travelling forwards in time.  Perhaps if space started shrinking then we might be able to travel backwards through time.  If this happened the past might simply unwind behind us with the same ease as the future unwinds before us.  Would we know it if this happened.  Probably not.  We would unngress from one moment back to the last moment and so forth and so forth.  We wouldnt recognise it happening as even our memories are simply erased as if the future hadnt yet existed.  Only the now would exist  and time would still seem as linear as ever full of choice and potential.

The only thing that seems certain is everything is ageing due to growth due to the expansion of space-time. And we may never know for certain at any one moment if we are travelling into the future or into the past.


" Where does yesterday go to? Where does tomorrow come from? Is not the universe the proginetor of space and time? "
                                                                        **Time-machine Universe**
                                                            http://www.unexplain...howtopic=286269

#10    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 17,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:33 AM

On our level of existence, that is the size level we live in and several orders of magnitude either way, time seems to have a specific direction.  This is statistical.

If you have two chambers, one filled with gas A and the other filled with gas B, with a small opening between the two, over time because of random motions of the gases, both chambers will come to have a mixture of the two gases.  Then no matter how long you wait the odds are overwhelmingly against the gases, with continuing random motion, sorting themselves back into their original chambers.

I'm sure this has been explained to all of us dozens of times.  It is these probabilities that serve to give time its apparent motion.  It is also I think the thing that gives randomness the appearance of making things seem caused and determined.  When any individual molecules crosses the barrier may be random (or, because of chaotic conditions, effectively random), but the net result and the time it will take there are pretty much determined simply by probability.


#11    sepulchrave

sepulchrave

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,904 posts
  • Joined:19 Apr 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:16 PM

There are other contexts that one can consider when discussing time travel, in particular how time travel affects conservation ``laws''.

I put the word ``laws'' in quotes, because if time travel were possible then the mass-energy of a closed system (in the conventional sense) need not be conserved.

If you have a time machine inside a locked room and you use it to go back in time by 1 hour, and then 59 minutes after that you and your time-travelled self use it again to go back 1 hour, and then 59 minutes after that the 3 of ``you'' use it again, and so on... is there are hard limit on the identical self-copies of mass-energy that can accumulate at a given time?

When if (after continuous use of this) you achieve enough energy density to make a black hole?


#12    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 5,507 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:49 PM

There's an interesting Wiki page titled 'Temporal Paradox' that lists various hypothetical solutions to time travel paradoxes. It's pretty good.
http://en.wikipedia....emporal_paradox

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
To see reality loose your opinions.

#13    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Seeker79

  • Member
  • 12,999 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 23 June 2014 - 02:20 AM

View PostIBelieveWhatIWant, on 22 June 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Not sure if this is the correct place for this discussion but it was the closest I could find, anyway.

I was trying to sleep last night when I was thinking about time travel and the possibility of going back in time even though it has been stated that if you were to go back in any form other than observation then it could create paradoxes, that being said.
Why would it create a paradox, for a paradox to exist must mean that we are on a set timeline of sorts where everything has already been determined for us because if we weren't then the timeline could be changed there fore avoiding any paradoxes created by time travel.

So I figure that it is either 1 of 2 answers that time travel into the past IS possible but any changes just changes the time line and our future is left up to us and it isn't predetermined or that time travel into the past ISN'T possible but that would mean that our timeline has already been set and everything from the beginning of the universe to the end is already set in stone.

I find this to be very interesting subject I would very much like to hear other opinions on this because I could have a very basic on how this stuff could work seeing as I have very little experience in this field and would like to hear from others with more experience who could shed some light on the possibility of this.
There are no paradoxes. They exist only in our imagination. Why? It's not only that travel back in time is impossible its that time doesn't really exist as a thing. It's simply the recognition of change. There is no future other than probabilities and there is no past other than records and deduction. To travel back into the past you would have to rearrange the entire universe back to exactly the way it was, including you, so it would no longer be the past anymore it would then be the present. It's cool to speculate, but what perceive as time isn't really a thing, or even a dimension like space as some suggest. It's an illusion of sentience.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#14    psyche101

psyche101

    The Customer.

  • Member
  • 38,390 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:03 AM

The best minds today on the frontiers of science seem to think it's possible:

LINK - Michio Kaku The Physics of Time Travel Is it real, or is it fable?

LINK - Stephen Hawking Space and Time Warps

We thus have experimental evidence from the bending of light, that space-time is curved, and confirmation from the Casimir effect, that we can warp it in the negative direction. So it might seem possible, that as we advance in science and technology, we might be able to construct a wormhole, or warp space and time in some other way, so as to be able to travel into our past.


LINK - Michio Kaku Big- Is Time TRavel Possible? Big Think

In fact, since then, a series of solutions of Einstein's equations have been discovered which allow for time travel back into the past. Time travel is allowed for:

a) traveling around a spinning universe
B) traveling around a spinning cylinder which is infinitely long
c) traveling around two colliding cosmic strings
d) traveling through a spinning black hole
e) stretching or compressing space via negative matter
f) traveling through a wormhole.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#15    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 5,507 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:23 AM

I have a kind of involved opinion of time and time travel, but I hesitate to post it as I think it will just be dismissed as the ramblings of an old man. I'll just say I consider time to be a real dimension, the past and the future to exist, and a time-traveler to the past would just become his/her past self, and would not know he/she had traveled back in time.

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
To see reality loose your opinions.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users