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Slavery DOES exist

mind slavery brain thoughts

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#16    TSS

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:53 PM

View PostChris Raj, on 25 June 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

I understand. However, the Adrenal Glands are only activated in the event of danger / when excited. Adrenaline does lead to Self-Control, in some situations.

Correct, adrenalin can lead to self-control. It used to be thought that adrenalin junkies had almost mild psychopathic tendencies, i.e an inability to think through the consequences of their actions, that's generally accepted as being false though, it is more the case that they know exactly what the risks are, but unlike most others they choose not to dwell on them, therefore they can concentrate more on the task at hand, that has the knock on effect of their adrenalin levels not peaking to high, and their heart rate not peaking as high as most others when in these situations that others would find stressful. I'm not sure if there is a correlation but it seems reasonable to conclude that adrenalin and self control are connected in situations that the person is aware is about to happen, rather then the shock/fog of fear adrenalin rush that can debilitate most people.

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Adrenaline does cloud our thoughts in dodgy situations. However, it is simply the Brain going into Hyperdrive. Ofcourse, it is not right to say that the Brain is clueless to it's actions just because it's high off of Adrenaline, just because it is clouded. Correct?!

I would agree with that.

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Unless, the Brain could sense events even before they happened.

Never thought about it like that tbh, but it would work under the scenario I posted above...what would trigger it to sense events is anyone's guess though - and I guess that's really what you're trying to get ideas about in your original question?

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Lo.. Premonition (in theory) which could actually still retain the precise calculations of the Brain without having to rectify them.

That would make sense (in theory).

Edited by The Sky Scanner, 25 June 2014 - 03:56 PM.

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#17    CrimsonKing

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 04:59 PM

^^^ I agree 100% SS

I have trained and fought in Boxing/MMA for over half my life and can say with certainty that one learns to control adrenalin when it comes to a known situation.Even the most skilled,well trained badass will have their adrenalin spike before a fight,if they say otherwise that is a lie.As you mentioned it is knowing and accepting the consequences beforehand and training for any situations that may arise that helps to maintain control.The mind has to be just as conditioned as the body and vice versa

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#18    TSS

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:12 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 25 June 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

^^^ I agree 100% SS

I have trained and fought in Boxing/MMA for over half my life and can say with certainty that one learns to control adrenalin when it comes to a known situation.Even the most skilled,well trained badass will have their adrenalin spike before a fight,if they say otherwise that is a lie.As you mentioned it is knowing and accepting the consequences beforehand and training for any situations that may arise that helps to maintain control.The mind has to be just as conditioned as the body and vice versa

In last years TT (2013) I got chatting to a rider from Kent, I think it was only his second year there, and we got talking and I asked him how he controlled the fear - first he said he didn't have fear (but felt nervous at the start line, different from fear though). He said if he felt genuine fear he couldn't do it,  but he only felt no fear because he had played every scenario through in his head for many months before the racing started, even down to being one of the ones that didn't make it. Because he had played all those scenarios through his head he had 'dealt with them' (his words), then he could put them to the back of his mind and get on with the job at hand.

I assumed it's something you have to learn, but i'm not sure having the ability to prioritise danger to the extent you and him do is something that is taught alone, it must be partly the way the brain works...would you agree? Or did you teach yourself this from the start of your fighting career?

Edited by The Sky Scanner, 25 June 2014 - 09:13 PM.

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#19    CrimsonKing

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:31 PM

Speaking for myself i completly agree.

The ability to deal with certain dangers come down to the actual person in my opinion,some things can be taught and when practiced over and over become natural.

I have seen some fighters who excelled in sparring,but after signing their medical waivers and the fight begins everything suddenly becomes very real they panic and lose control.

So yes i tend to agree with what you are saying,one can teach themselves to deal with such things but also i think some of it comes down to how some are wired.

Edited by CrimsonKing, 25 June 2014 - 09:34 PM.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#20    toast

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:48 PM

View PostChris Raj, on 25 June 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

1. If Tellurians by birth were sense-devoid (I.E., 5 Senses), what is our absolute reality then?
As we do not have a model independent point of view to evaluate the absolute reality there is no need to speculate about
an absolute reality in case of missing or additional senses of beings.

View PostChris Raj, on 25 June 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

2. Through our Eyes, we see this "Reality". If the world was born Blind, then what is our reality? Is it just darkness?
In that case there are still 5 senses (incl. equilibrium sense) left to get impressions of the world around. And your question
is illogical because a being that has never seen light will not have a word for the the opposite, means the word darkness.

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#21    Lilly

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:15 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 25 June 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

.

The ability to deal with certain dangers come down to the actual person...

That's the real issue IMO. You can be big/strong/tough and then cave (and I mean badly) when a real life and death situation comes about. Even an MMA fighter is not really in danger of losing his life. I'd say a combat seasoned soldier is probably the only person who really comprehends this type of thing. Personally, I had a minor taste of it just once. I did manage to shoot back but I can't say as I even aimed (and I was crouched behind a tree stump/rock).

I guess being able to control one's thought processes and avoid being somehow "enslaved" probably boils down to something similar.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~


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#22    CrimsonKing

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:31 PM

I agree lilly,i have seen some real "tough" guys completly crumble under immense pressure.

The biggest risk in boxing or MMA is not certain death,it is the fact one "off" night things can and have gone horribly wrong to the point of injury that one would wish they were dead.

I also agree a combat veteran is the best person to explain such things,my little bro is a former
marine and currently a pro fighter that i train.The above comment were his exact words

Edited by CrimsonKing, 25 June 2014 - 10:32 PM.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#23    Lilly

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:45 PM

Yikes...MMA sounds terrifying!

I'm glad I have dogs and fire power vs brawn.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~


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#24    CrimsonKing

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:55 PM

View PostLilly, on 25 June 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Yikes...MMA sounds terrifying!
I'm glad I have dogs and fire power vs brawn.

I detect a bit of sarcasm :P

Never the less this topic wasn't about combat with guns or hand to hand we just were discussing a side note about adrenalin and how some react.

Lets not go all US politics forum section on here   :gun:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#25    quiXilver

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:28 AM

choice is what I believe we call the process of rationalizing our reactions to the conditions of life... \which lie outside our conscious control.

we react to things and then describe how we made a choice, when in fact, in the moment, there is only action and then after that, thought about why the action took place...

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#26    Lilly

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:09 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 25 June 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

I detect a bit of sarcasm :P

Not in the least....remember I'm a woman and would be at a great disadvantage in such a fight.


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Never the less this topic wasn't about combat with guns or hand to hand we just were discussing a side note about adrenalin and how some react.

Exactly, and not really 'off topic' as we're searching for what human quality it is that keeps people from being enslaved (due to our brains setting us up for said 'slavery'). The hypothesis here was that perhaps something akin to being able to deal with adversity even when ones life is threatened might be the key to remaining free vs enslaved?

Frankly though, I'm not so sure I buy into the initial premise/hypothesis. I'm not sure our brains are doing such a bad job actually. Certainly in many instances intellect should be driving the bus vs instinct. That said, instinctive, physical reactions do have a purpose.



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Lets not go all US politics forum section on here   :gun:


Politics?

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~


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#27    Sundew

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:51 PM

In Christian circles, this opens up the discussion of predestination vs. free will and accountability, somethings theologians have wrestled with and debated for centuries, and something unlikely to be resolved here.


#28    Chris Raj

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:35 PM

View Posttoast, on 25 June 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

As we do not have a model independent point of view to evaluate the absolute reality there is no need to speculate about
an absolute reality in case of missing or additional senses of beings.


In that case there are still 5 senses (incl. equilibrium sense) left to get impressions of the world around. And your question
is illogical because a being that has never seen light will not have a word for the the opposite, means the word darkness.

I would not find my question illogical, purely based on the fact that antonyms play great roles in our lives. It is rather hard to comprehend your argument when you say "because a being that has never seen light will not have a word for the the opposite". Perhaps not darkness. But surely another term.

It is rather obvious that Humans are not content to just what they have. Desire precedes self-content.

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#29    Chris Raj

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:49 PM

View PostquiXilver, on 26 June 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

choice is what I believe we call the process of rationalizing our reactions to the conditions of life... \which lie outside our conscious control.

we react to things and then describe how we made a choice, when in fact, in the moment, there is only action and then after that, thought about why the action took place...

Yes. I agree. Everyone has a choice. But why does the Brain have choices? Does it fear retribution, if the wrong choice is made? Why should it fear? However, if the lines between Right & Wrong are blurred, we wouldn't have any choices.

(Considering a negative situation) If we contemplate, after a certain action, does it mean that the mind questions it's own judgement? Was there a mental miscalculation?

Let's assume, In a certain situation, the person's Adrenaline peaks, through which he ends up committing a Crime (Without any intoxicants in his body). Now can that person, blame it on his Adrenaline or flawed judgement? Which one do you think takes precedence?

Edited by Chris Raj, 26 June 2014 - 02:04 PM.

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#30    markdohle

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:59 PM

View PostquiXilver, on 26 June 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

choice is what I believe we call the process of rationalizing our reactions to the conditions of life... \which lie outside our conscious control.

we react to things and then describe how we made a choice, when in fact, in the moment, there is only action and then after that, thought about why the action took place...

That may be true at times, for instances in an emergency when we have to react instantly.  Even then, and this is from personal experience, the mind does speed up, time slows down, which give time to maneuver out of danger, hence time to actually think.  though of course this is not always the case, we just do it, then think about what we did later.  I think before I react all the time.  I have anger issues, so when I feel a mood, I tend to be very careful how I react.  The mind can observe, the brain cannot I believe.

Peace
Mark






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