Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 2 votes

Oklahoma earthquakes linked to fracking


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#1    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 39,791 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:07 PM

UPI said:


JONES, Ohio, July 3 (UPI) --The saline wastewater -- a byproduct of the oil and gas industry -- that's injected deep into the ground under intense pressure and high rates of speed, is responsible for the surge of earthquakes in Oklahoma, according to a new study published this week in Science Magazine.

In recent years, Oklahoma has featured more earthquakes than anywhere else in the United States -- even more than California. So far in 2014, the Sooner State has served as host to some 240 small earthquakes, each with a magnitude of at least three.

Since 2008, more than 2,500 earthquakes have shook the grounds surrounding Jones, Okla., a small town smack dab in the middle of the state.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/S.../#ixzz36VM0F3wA




A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#2    George Ford

George Ford

    Just pretend you didn't see anything

  • Banned
  • 3,149 posts
  • Joined:02 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:nowhere

  • 'I live in the weak and the wounded... Doc'

Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:15 PM

Good! I hope they ban fracking world wide!

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” ~ Carl Sagan

#3    Eldorado

Eldorado

    Unforgiven

  • Member
  • 11,912 posts
  • Joined:29 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

  • I reckon so.

Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:24 PM

View Postbulveye, on 04 July 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Good! I hope they ban fracking world wide!

Me too.  It's fracking dangerous.


#4    bmk1245

bmk1245

    puny village idiot

  • Member
  • 5,137 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vilnius, Lithuania

Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:32 PM

View Postbulveye, on 04 July 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Good! I hope they ban fracking world wide!
And what is your solution for gas demand? Don't say 'solar/wind', cause world leaders in renewables - Germany, Denmark - are still very far away from fully solar/wind.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot... Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).
If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

I'm dead drunk and heave' hanging upside down... (good ol' AC/DC).

#5    Dark_Grey

Dark_Grey

    Baseless Opinionator

  • Member
  • 3,103 posts
  • Joined:08 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The heart of the New West

  • if (empty($universe)) {
    include 'reality.php';
    }

Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 04 July 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

And what is your solution for gas demand? Don't say 'solar/wind', cause world leaders in renewables - Germany, Denmark - are still very far away from fully solar/wind.

Maybe, and bear with me here, but maybe there are things that are more important that gas demand?

I'll let that digest with you for a while.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#6    bmk1245

bmk1245

    puny village idiot

  • Member
  • 5,137 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vilnius, Lithuania

Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:59 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 04 July 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Maybe, and bear with me here, but maybe there are things that are more important that gas demand?

I'll let that digest with you for a while.
When you will have rationed (say, few hours per day) and expensive electricity, then you will sing different song. Digest that.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot... Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).
If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

I'm dead drunk and heave' hanging upside down... (good ol' AC/DC).

#7    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,800 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:50 PM

Carefully managed conventional gas can be used to meet the demand until renewable can fill the gap.
What has happened with Fracking is a classic example of how not to manage your resources. Overexploitation of a non-renewable resource to the extent where you can't even cover your costs.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#8    bmk1245

bmk1245

    puny village idiot

  • Member
  • 5,137 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vilnius, Lithuania

Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:26 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 July 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

Carefully managed conventional gas can be used to meet the demand until renewable can fill the gap.[...]
What is "carefully managed", and at what cost?  In your own words (with numbers, preferably), please.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot... Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).
If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

I'm dead drunk and heave' hanging upside down... (good ol' AC/DC).

#9    Dark_Grey

Dark_Grey

    Baseless Opinionator

  • Member
  • 3,103 posts
  • Joined:08 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The heart of the New West

  • if (empty($universe)) {
    include 'reality.php';
    }

Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:02 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 04 July 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

What is "carefully managed", and at what cost?  In your own words (with numbers, preferably), please.

Are you a shareholder for Shell? Fracking is cheap way to do it - not the only way. Besides, on a long enough timeline, with or without earthquakes, electricity will become almost a luxury as the price is incrementally increased regularly.  Blowing the tops off mountains is a hefty price to pay to keep iPhones charged. Sure, it works for now but in 100 years there will be regrets. This type short term thinking is indicative of an insane society.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#10    bmk1245

bmk1245

    puny village idiot

  • Member
  • 5,137 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vilnius, Lithuania

Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:41 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 04 July 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

Are you a shareholder for Shell? [...]
Nope, as far as I know (unless bank, responsible for my pension, invests in).

View PostDark_Grey, on 04 July 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

[...] Fracking is cheap way to do it - not the only way. Besides, on a long enough timeline, with or without earthquakes, electricity will become almost a luxury as the price is incrementally increased regularly.  Blowing the tops off mountains is a hefty price to pay to keep iPhones charged. Sure, it works for now but in 100 years there will be regrets. This type short term thinking is indicative of an insane society.
Again, many blah blah blahs, and nothing to substantiate. Propose something that would fully replace gas in, say, a decade...
Nada, zero, huh?
So, don't sit on your palms, do something, you are full of ideas, you know how to replace gas, aren't you? Or you just blahblahing while sitting on the comfy couch and stuffing chips behind your cheeks?

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot... Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).
If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

I'm dead drunk and heave' hanging upside down... (good ol' AC/DC).

#11    MysticStrummer

MysticStrummer

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,062 posts
  • Joined:15 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Old Yharnam

  • The great path has no gates. Thousands of roads enter it. When one passes through this gateless gate, he walks freely between heaven and earth.

Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:15 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 04 July 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

And what is your solution for gas demand? Don't say 'solar/wind', cause world leaders in renewables - Germany, Denmark - are still very far away from fully solar/wind.

I wonder where we'd be today if certain interests had been working on this problem all along instead of trying to squeeze out every last dollar they could just because it was more cost effective for them? Hell I did solar power as a 5th grade science project back in the mid 70s. I have a friend whose mother has solar panels on her house, which is a huge house, and she brings in enough power to run everything and sell the surplus to the power company. Her solar panels aren't even that large. Don't tell us it can't be done, because that is simply ludicrous man.

Big oil only made $93 billion in profits last year, so excuse me if I don't lose sleep over them having to invest in a cleaner future.

I went to the Ross Perot Science Museum in Dallas last year. They had large sections of one floor devoted to fracking and the oil industry in general. There was actually a ride that 20 people or so would climb inside and it would simulate a ride down into a fracking well. They went out of their way to talk about how there were no possible consequences for what they were doing, which made me laugh. No one in their right mind could look at fracking and think it was a good idea, but then again I'd say no one in their right mind would defend spewing crap into the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the ground where we grow our food, but people certainly do that.

Humans man… Is it possible to secede from the species?

Edited by MysticStrummer, 05 July 2014 - 05:22 AM.

Ummon asked : "The world is such a wide world, why do you answer a bell and don ceremonial robes?" ~ Zen Flesh Zen Bones

#12    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,800 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:32 PM

The future is already here and it aint Fracking



the main monoplies are fighting hard to keep independent producers off the grid but it is becoming untenable for Governments to support monopolies over citizens and they will force the National grids to buy electricity from micro-generators. Gas turbine generators will become backup for the alternatives and will deminish as total share over time.
It is frankly stupid to destroy our environment for such a short term gain as Fracking offers.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 05 July 2014 - 12:41 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#13    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence.

  • Member
  • 11,493 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:28 PM

View PostMysticStrummer, on 05 July 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

I wonder where we'd be today if certain interests had been working on this problem all along instead of trying to squeeze out every last dollar they could just because it was more cost effective for them?
I wonder where your "interests" would get the money to play with a toy like solar energy instead of providing me with the energy I need to drive my car to work and earn a living in an air-conditioned classroom, not to mention the myriad other things I need energy for, not the least of which is to have the ability to point out the flaws in your post.

View PostMysticStrummer, on 05 July 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Hell I did solar power as a 5th grade science project back in the mid 70s. I have a friend whose mother has solar panels on her house, which is a huge house, and she brings in enough power to run everything and sell the surplus to the power company. Her solar panels aren't even that large. Don't tell us it can't be done, because that is simply ludicrous man.
I'm calling bull**** on that.

A typical solar panel can reliably produce around 200 watts.  A typical home uses almost 1000 KW a month. That's a million watts a month, or about 33,333 watts per day, That means your friend's mother must have over 165 panels. At around 175 to 225 bucks per panel.
And that assumes 30 days of clear skies.

View PostMysticStrummer, on 05 July 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Big oil only made $93 billion in profits last year, so excuse me if I don't lose sleep over them having to invest in a cleaner future.
Typical profit margins for oil companies in 2013 were under 10%. Here's a link to show you that Starbuck's (among thousands of other companies) have outperformed that for years.
Why doesn't Starbucks use their obscene profits to fund solar research?

View PostMysticStrummer, on 05 July 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

I went to the Ross Perot Science Museum in Dallas last year. They had large sections of one floor devoted to fracking and the oil industry in general. There was actually a ride that 20 people or so would climb inside and it would simulate a ride down into a fracking well. They went out of their way to talk about how there were no possible consequences for what they were doing, which made me laugh. No one in their right mind could look at fracking and think it was a good idea, but then again I'd say no one in their right mind would defend spewing crap into the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the ground where we grow our food, but people certainly do that.
Yet your philosophy would deny us the ability to drastically reduce the crap we spew into the air by using gas to make electricity rather than oil or coal.

View PostMysticStrummer, on 05 July 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Humans man… Is it possible to secede from the species?
I'll send you the form.

Harte

Posted Image
See the new Harte Mark III
And the Mayan panoramas on my pyramid pajamas haven't helped my little problem. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Anybody like Coleridge?

#14    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Closed
  • 8,732 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:43 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 04 July 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

Are you a shareholder for Shell? Fracking is cheap way to do it - not the only way. Besides, on a long enough timeline, with or without earthquakes, electricity will become almost a luxury as the price is incrementally increased regularly.  Blowing the tops off mountains is a hefty price to pay to keep iPhones charged. Sure, it works for now but in 100 years there will be regrets. This type short term thinking is indicative of an insane society.

...and not the only signs today of an insane society... :cry:


#15    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,800 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:45 PM

Harte, typical installed solar capacity is about 4KW and that costs about €5,000.00 at current prices. Average production maybe just 200watts but peak production and in good locations it will produce 4kw. a typical house uses about 3kw/h per day so a typical house can be self sufficient and even export to the grid on a regular basis for a small initial up front investment.
Gas can be saved when peak production is happening and that will mean that conventional reserves of gas will be extended many times as more solar is installed. The difference which is massively significant is that gas will decline and cost will go up - where as there is almost no limit to the amount of solar capacity that can be installed and the supply will naturally increase over time. It is postulated that the life expectancy of a solar PV panel is 30yrs (longer than a fracked well) but a solar panel has never worn out so the potential return on initial capitol and energy investment is almost limitless.

There are logistical problems in transferring to solar/wind (not least of which is monopoly interests) but the basic maths means that Solar will come to dominate the energy sector just as the video I linked to (by experts) is a reflection of the coming reality.

Coupled to this is the fact that it would be relatively easy and painless for most Americans to save at least a third of their electricity usage with minimal lifestyle changes and increased overall comfort.

Also your argument about Fracking allowing a cut in CO2 emissions is rubbish as it has been shown that Fracked wells produce many hundreds of time the fugitive emissions of a conventional gas well and this makes then no better and even sometimes worse than coal. Unfortunately on the balance of evidence we would do less environmental damage simply continuing to burn coal than to transfer to fracked gas for our electricity.

The reality is that solar PV has followed a similar cost profile over time as computing power, with little sign of that changing. This means that in the medium term it has the potential for market penetration at least as significant as the rise of PC's from niche to ubiquitous.  This truly is a world changing technology.

Who are the people lobbying hardest to restrict grid access - the monopoly energy interests. Me thinks you've been suckered.

Your position is one of atavistic fear mongering.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 05 July 2014 - 02:03 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users