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Gaza Invasion looming ?


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#1    RoofGardener

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:40 PM

It looks like the Israeli's are gearing up for a land incursion into Gaza.

Last time they did this, there mere threat was enough to force HAMAS to declare a truce in rocket/mortar fire.

Will they do it this time ?
Will Israel even recognise a truce, or suspect that it is all just Kitman to allow HAMAS to re-arm ?

Place 'yer bets, Ladies.

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#2    bubblykiss

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:15 PM

Not gonna lie, I am a bit shocked there has been so little violence and volatility in Gaza during Bush's West Asian Adventure.

Now that Israel is provoked things are going to get very interesting in the Near East.

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#3    Frank Merton

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:22 PM

Israel is provoking things like being hit over and over by missiles from Gaza.


#4    and then

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:58 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 09 July 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Israel is provoking things like being hit over and over by missiles from Gaza.
Bibi nearly prostrated himself and his country trying to avoid this conflict.  How was he answered?  The "game" there is all about perceptions and he came across as weak.  That is DEADLY in the M.E. and he knows it.  My guess is that he will be blamed for instigating it by appearing to be weak.  The whole conflict is insane.
If Israel follows the same path of mobilizing and then allows a truce then we'll see this little drama again in a year or two.  "Protective Edge" in Hebrew translates "buffer zone".  Maybe they have decided to change the facts on the ground a bit.

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#5    and then

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:06 PM

View Postbubblykiss, on 09 July 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Not gonna lie, I am a bit shocked there has been so little violence and volatility in Gaza during Bush's West Asian Adventure.

Now that Israel is provoked things are going to get very interesting in the Near East.
This brushfire at this particular time might lead to an unforeseen escalation.  All it will take is for the Sunni Shia maniacs to decide to turn on their common enemy to save their "brotherly" Palestinian friend.  God help all the neighbors if the IDF really decides to take off the gloves.

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#6    bubblykiss

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 06:07 AM

View Postand then, on 09 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

This brushfire at this particular time might lead to an unforeseen escalation.  All it will take is for the Sunni Shia maniacs to decide to turn on their common enemy to save their "brotherly" Palestinian friend.  God help all the neighbors if the IDF really decides to take off the gloves.

If they tried it there would be a hellish war in quick order.

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#7    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 06:12 AM

The problem would not be conquering Gaza but ruling it.


#8    RoofGardener

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:47 AM

Very true, Frank... very true.

Meanwhile, a BBC report http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28241273 quotes a Palestinian source as saying that HAMAS has offered a ceasefire, but that NetenYahooooo has rejected it.

If true, then it would suggest that seems the Israeli's are tired of the Palestinian tactic of provoking, and then pulling back from the brink at the last minute.

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#9    Sir Smoke aLot

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:43 AM

Israel needs more land and with time, they need to have all of Palestine land. It's a fact. The map is unchanged for too much time i guess..
This latest violence there has been set up professionally, that is what i believe, with Hamas being so stupid to start rocket attacks which can't make them any good ( in terms of making their position at negotiations stronger ) but they just make their own people suffer as a result. Too many people already died and whats even worse many of them are children, and for what?

Because when Hamas use rockets - Israeli administration won't think - they will retaliate in very, very harsh way and will always find a way to justify its actions ( like what they said about 8 people killed in the house - we gave warning shot! ). Its rude to even try and justify murders. Reminds me of the words of Balkans lunatics... ' if you harm one of us we will kill 100 of them '. Barbaric. I feel that we can, almost surely, expect full scale invasion from Israel very soon and all that was happening recently are just steps needed to happen to get there. All of that happened after two Palestinian factions became united under government laws.

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#10    Leonardo

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:54 AM

View PostSir Smoke aLot, on 10 July 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Israel needs more land...

Why?

Palestine (693 ppl/km2) is more densely populated than Israel (358 ppl/km2). So, by your logic Palestine should have more right to take land than Israel.

The ambitions of Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians in the region has little to do with demographics, but a lot to do with a perceived "manifest destiny" - and it is this ideological drive that is facilitating the violence in the region. I prefer to refer to it as idiotology, rather than ideology, however.

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#11    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:16 AM

If by this time tomorrow Gaza isn't entirely Israeli by right of conquest (rocket fire into another country is an act of war) I'll be terribly surprised.

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#12    Sir Smoke aLot

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:21 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 10 July 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Why?

Palestine (693 ppl/km2) is more densely populated than Israel (358 ppl/km2). So, by your logic Palestine should have more right to take land than Israel.

The ambitions of Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians in the region has little to do with demographics, but a lot to do with a perceived "manifest destiny" - and it is this ideological drive that is facilitating the violence in the region. I prefer to refer to it as idiotology, rather than ideology, however.

Year after year, for many decades, Israel is taking land from Palestine. It is known thing and its not different now, same thing as 50 years ago. It was the way to make settlements at first but with time Israeli appetite has grown, now they need it all because the same people who they evict from their homes are now described as terrorists who deserve to be punished.

No one has a right to take land from anyone, anywhere and maybe you have misunderstood me ( because of that ' needs land ' part, i was alluding that Israel has become too greedy ), Israel doesn't need that land today, not for living or anything so important to justify killings - but with decades of crimes, nationalism - now they feel this land was theirs always and they need it back. As for problems in this region - they started at same time when Israeli settlements started to grow and when old villages started to burn - only with time did the new 'issues' arise.

And, when you mention it, what do you think is the reason that Palestine is so densely populated? Now they ( Israeli ) need to finish what they started and claim everything...

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#13    and then

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:20 PM

View PostSir Smoke aLot, on 10 July 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Israel needs more land and with time, they need to have all of Palestine land. It's a fact. The map is unchanged for too much time i guess..
This latest violence there has been set up professionally, that is what i believe, with Hamas being so stupid to start rocket attacks which can't make them any good ( in terms of making their position at negotiations stronger ) but they just make their own people suffer as a result. Too many people already died and whats even worse many of them are children, and for what?

Because when Hamas use rockets - Israeli administration won't think - they will retaliate in very, very harsh way and will always find a way to justify its actions ( like what they said about 8 people killed in the house - we gave warning shot! ). Its rude to even try and justify murders. Reminds me of the words of Balkans lunatics... ' if you harm one of us we will kill 100 of them '. Barbaric. I feel that we can, almost surely, expect full scale invasion from Israel very soon and all that was happening recently are just steps needed to happen to get there. All of that happened after two Palestinian factions became united under government laws.
I see.  So 3 Israeli children are kidnapped and murdered by Hamas, Israel reacts strongly and with anger at such an atrocity, Hamas starts firing rockets and refuses to stop, Israel opens an offensive to stop hundreds of rockets falling on their citizens daily - and that is Israel's fault.... that sum it up for you Sir?

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#14    RoofGardener

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:25 PM

View PostSir Smoke aLot, on 10 July 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

......
And, when you mention it, what do you think is the reason that Palestine is so densely populated? .
Umm... high birth rates ?

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#15    Almagest

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:27 PM

My predictions: Gaza is going to shrink and the West is going to stand by and justify it. Anyone who voices sympathy for the Palestinians or criticism for the Israelis will be branded an anti-Semite. More civilians will die and it won't make a dent in the blood lust of the hateful fanatics in Israel. And the hateful fanatics in Palestine will use the attacks to justify their own disgusting actions, and recruit more angry and orphaned youths so that the cycle may continue. And in the middle? Israelis and Palestinians who just want to live in peace instead being forced to live in fear.

I support the right of Israel to protect itself, just as I support the right for an oppressed people to resist their oppressors. The problem is proportion. Terrorism is a crime, and those launching rockets at Israel are criminals. What does killing civilians achieve when you're fighting a criminal organisation? How would people feel if the United States started bombing border towns in Mexico in an attempt to hit the cartels and wound up killing Mexican citizens?

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