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Clovis People


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#1    LucidElement

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:14 PM

Taken from crystalinks.com.. Never heard of the Clovis people until I just read an article about it. Found it to be pretty interesting, and wanted to share with you guys, let me know if you have any insight or have read about this before.

---------------------------------------------------

LINK::: http://crystalinks.com/clovis.html

The Clovis culture is a prehistoric Native American culture that first appears in the archaeological record of North America around 13,500 years ago, at the end of the last ice age.
The culture is named for artifacts found near Clovis, New Mexico, where the first evidence of this tool complex was excavated in 1932. Earlier evidence included a mammoth skeleton with a spear-point in its ribs, found by a cowboy in 1926 near Folsom, New Mexico. Clovis sites have since been identified throughout all of the contiguous United States, as well as Mexico and Central America.

The Clovis people, also known as Paleo-Indians, are generally regarded as the the first human inhabitants of the New World, and ancestors of all the indigenous cultures of North and South America. However, this view has been recently contested by various archaeological finds which are claimed to be much older.

There are a number of controversial sites vying for the position of the earliest site in the region. The best evidence, however, suggests that a society of hunters and gatherers known as Clovis People were the first to settle in the Southwest, probably sometime before 9,500 B.C. The Clovis People were so named after the New Mexico town, site of the first discovery in 1932, near Clovis, N.M.
Since the mid 20th century, the standard theory among archaeologists has been that the Clovis people were the first inhabitants of the Americas. The primary support of the theory was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human inhabitation has been found. According to the standard accepted theory, the Clovis people crossed the Beringia land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska during the period of lowered sea levels during the ice age, then made their way southward through an ice-free corridor east of the Rocky Mountains in present-day western Canada as the glaciers retreated.

The culture lasted for about a half a millennium, from about 11,200 to 10,900 years ago. People of the Clovis culture were successful, efficient big-game hunters and foragers. Judging from sites on the North American Great Plains, the Clovis people were skilled hunters of huge animals, especially Ice Age mammoths and mastodons.

It is generally accepted that Clovis people hunted mammoth: sites abound where Clovis points are found mixed in with mammoth remains. Whether they drove the mammoth to extinction via overhunting them - the so-called Pleistocene overkill hypothesis - is still an open, and controversial, question, keeping in mind that Archaeology is purely a theoretical endeavor.

ALSO!

And while independent invention could account for these similarities (i.e., finding the same solutions to the same questions), the oldest Clovis tools are not on the Great Plains, or in the Great Basin or Southwest of the U.S. - where they should be if the Clovis people trickled in from Siberia and then fanned out across the continent - but rather they are found in the eastern and southeastern regions of the U.S. It's possible that Ice Age Europeans may have crossed into North America by boats, hugging the edges of the great ice sheets that stretched from Greenland westward to what is now upstate New York.

Around 10,500 years ago, Clovis abruptly vanish from the archaeological record, replaced by a myriad of different local hunter-gatherer cultures. Why this happened no one knows but their disappearance coincides with the mass extinction of Ice Age big-game animals, leading to speculation that Clovis people either hunted these mammals and drove them into extinction or over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

Another theory about the Clovis people is that these people caused the extinction in North America at the end of the Pleistocene. Researchers who support this view generally favor one of two explanations. The first is that human over-hunting directly caused the extinction. The second is that over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

Edited by LucidElement, 21 July 2014 - 01:14 PM.

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#2    Kenemet

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:06 PM

That article's a bit out of date.

They were at one time considered the "first people" but there's an increasing amount of evidence in Texas, along the eastern coast, and down in South America (Monte Verde) that while they had a distinctive culture with tools well adapted for hunting very large animals, they were not the first people in the Americas.

Clovis doesn't quite "vanish" as much as it changes because of the difference in hunting needs.  You can't hunt rabbit with a spearpoint as big as your hand.

Wikipedia has a nice summary of the current thoughts on this culture: http://en.wikipedia..../Clovis_culture


#3    jaylemurph

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:46 PM

Did a search engine beat you up as a kid and now you just refuse to use one, ever, out of pure spite, regardless of how many threads there are on any given topic, or do you just think your own contributions to any given subject are so unique and enlightening they can't be sullied by being grouped with other people's thoughts on exactly the same subject?

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#4    PersonFromPorlock

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:53 PM

Um, Jay... Proverbs 15:1?

Edited by PersonFromPorlock, 21 July 2014 - 08:54 PM.


#5    jaylemurph

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 09:52 PM

View PostPersonFromPorlock, on 21 July 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Um, Jay... Proverbs 15:1?

You mean 12:15, though, right?

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#6    docyabut2

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

I do think the Clovis and a migration of people from the eastern islands were the first and cause a extinction  of animals by killing whole herds, with out the thought to breed them for future food.


#7    Swede

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:02 PM

View PostLucidElement, on 21 July 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Taken from crystalinks.com.. Never heard of the Clovis people until I just read an article about it. Found it to be pretty interesting, and wanted to share with you guys, let me know if you have any insight or have read about this before.

---------------------------------------------------

LINK::: http://crystalinks.com/clovis.html

The Clovis culture is a prehistoric Native American culture that first appears in the archaeological record of North America around 13,500 years ago, at the end of the last ice age.
The culture is named for artifacts found near Clovis, New Mexico, where the first evidence of this tool complex was excavated in 1932. Earlier evidence included a mammoth skeleton with a spear-point in its ribs, found by a cowboy in 1926 near Folsom, New Mexico. Clovis sites have since been identified throughout all of the contiguous United States, as well as Mexico and Central America.

The Clovis people, also known as Paleo-Indians, are generally regarded as the the first human inhabitants of the New World, and ancestors of all the indigenous cultures of North and South America. However, this view has been recently contested by various archaeological finds which are claimed to be much older.

There are a number of controversial sites vying for the position of the earliest site in the region. The best evidence, however, suggests that a society of hunters and gatherers known as Clovis People were the first to settle in the Southwest, probably sometime before 9,500 B.C. The Clovis People were so named after the New Mexico town, site of the first discovery in 1932, near Clovis, N.M.
Since the mid 20th century, the standard theory among archaeologists has been that the Clovis people were the first inhabitants of the Americas. The primary support of the theory was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human inhabitation has been found. According to the standard accepted theory, the Clovis people crossed the Beringia land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska during the period of lowered sea levels during the ice age, then made their way southward through an ice-free corridor east of the Rocky Mountains in present-day western Canada as the glaciers retreated.

The culture lasted for about a half a millennium, from about 11,200 to 10,900 years ago. People of the Clovis culture were successful, efficient big-game hunters and foragers. Judging from sites on the North American Great Plains, the Clovis people were skilled hunters of huge animals, especially Ice Age mammoths and mastodons.

It is generally accepted that Clovis people hunted mammoth: sites abound where Clovis points are found mixed in with mammoth remains. Whether they drove the mammoth to extinction via overhunting them - the so-called Pleistocene overkill hypothesis - is still an open, and controversial, question, keeping in mind that Archaeology is purely a theoretical endeavor.

ALSO!

And while independent invention could account for these similarities (i.e., finding the same solutions to the same questions), the oldest Clovis tools are not on the Great Plains, or in the Great Basin or Southwest of the U.S. - where they should be if the Clovis people trickled in from Siberia and then fanned out across the continent - but rather they are found in the eastern and southeastern regions of the U.S. It's possible that Ice Age Europeans may have crossed into North America by boats, hugging the edges of the great ice sheets that stretched from Greenland westward to what is now upstate New York.

Around 10,500 years ago, Clovis abruptly vanish from the archaeological record, replaced by a myriad of different local hunter-gatherer cultures. Why this happened no one knows but their disappearance coincides with the mass extinction of Ice Age big-game animals, leading to speculation that Clovis people either hunted these mammals and drove them into extinction or over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

Another theory about the Clovis people is that these people caused the extinction in North America at the end of the Pleistocene. Researchers who support this view generally favor one of two explanations. The first is that human over-hunting directly caused the extinction. The second is that over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

As noted by Kenemet, your reference is notably outdated. Relatively recent re-evaluation of firm Clovis dates (Waters et al)  indicates that this Paleoindian cultural component lasted from circa 13.2-13.1 to 12.9 kya, a comparatively brief period. Subsequent cultural elements (Folsom, Cumberland, etc.) actually enhanced the length of the fluting often associated with the Clovis Culture, though there are certain lithic reduction strategies that do appear to rather Clovis specific (ie consistent production of outre passe' flakes). While the studies of this period are presently quite intense, with new data becoming available at a rather rapid pace, the following should provide you with a reasonable overview of current understandings:

http://csfa.tamu.edu/who.php

As to the "overkill hypothesis", this was originally proposed by Martin in the early 1970's. This proposal was initially met with some degree of enthusiasm coupled with justified skepticism. The subsequent decades of paleontological/archaeological/climatic research have not well supported this hypothesis and current research would tend to indicate a multiplicity of causations with the climatic transition of the late Pleistocene/early Holocene likely being a primary factor.

As a last note, and as observed by others such as Jayle, you would appear to be rather slothful in regards to research for one who professes to be a student of history.

.


#8    toyomotor

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:19 AM

OK, so the guy's a little out of date, but it's still a topic worthy of discussion.

Compared to a lot of the crap posted on this forum, a bit of science is a breath of fresh air.

There's no need to beat him up.

There is absolutely no proof at all that human beings actually communicate.

#9    jmccr8

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:21 AM

Hi Toyomotor,

There are several threads where there are volumes of information and not just opinions available if one chooses to research a subject here.It is understandable when a new member is unfamiliar with how the forum works,however,when members who have been so for several years responses are less diplomatic (depending on where you hail from).Re-posting the same links redundantly frays on some peoples nerves. :yes:

jmccr8


#10    Kenemet

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:44 AM

There's a nice short article on the finding of Clovis points among the remains of two gomphotheres in Northern Mexico.  I suspect that they might have decided to tackle these (smaller) animals on the grounds of "it sorta looks like the mammoth, therefore it must be tasty" principle
http://www.dailymail...ted-Clovis.html

It's particularly exciting because early data showed these creatures only in South America (the gomphtheres, not the Clovis people.)


#11    jmccr8

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:29 AM

Hominid groups have been hunting large game for well over 100kbp,so if it happened 13kbp I can only assume that they were happy that they weren't coming home with a couple of prairie chickens to feed the clan with. :clap:

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#12    toyomotor

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:06 AM

View Postjmccr8, on 22 July 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

Hi Toyomotor,

There are several threads where there are volumes of information and not just opinions available if one chooses to research a subject here.It is understandable when a new member is unfamiliar with how the forum works,however,when members who have been so for several years responses are less diplomatic (depending on where you hail from).Re-posting the same links redundantly frays on some peoples nerves. :yes:

jmccr8

Thanks for your comments.

I understand what you're saying, but  let him who is without sin etc. :yes:

Posting redundant info also irritates me sometimes, but the poster isn't necessarily going to know that it's been posted before.

The whole question of Paleo Ameroindian occupation of the US is one of my special interests, and if something  new is posted, I'd be very interested.

Ian

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#13    jmccr8

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:52 AM

Hi Toyomotor,
This link to a UM thread will provide a lot of material to ponder if you are interested.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=256663

jmccr8


#14    jaylemurph

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:36 AM

View Posttoyomotor, on 22 July 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

Thanks for your comments.

I understand what you're saying, but  let him who is without sin etc. :yes:

Posting redundant info also irritates me sometimes, but the poster isn't necessarily going to know that it's been posted before.

The whole question of Paleo Ameroindian occupation of the US is one of my special interests, and if something  new is posted, I'd be very interested.

Ian

...pretty sure I've never started a new thread on an already-extant topic, so I feel pretty free to let loose with /a/ stone. Maybe not the first one, though. (And of course the poster can know what's been posted before... by using the search engine. I believe that is the point of such technology...)

--Jaylemurph

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#15    toyomotor

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:00 AM

View Postjaylemurph, on 23 July 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

...pretty sure I've never started a new thread on an already-extant topic, so I feel pretty free to let loose with /a/ stone. Maybe not the first one, though. (And of course the poster can know what's been posted before... by using the search engine. I believe that is the point of such technology...)

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Fair enough.

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