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Obama demands limits on U.S. company mergers


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#1    OverSword

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:37 PM

Rarely does the president propose something that I agree with, but this is one of those times.  From the article:

President Barack Obama has demanded 'economic patriotism' from U.S. corporations that use legal means to avoid U.S. taxes through overseas mergers.
'I don't care if it's legal,' Obama declared on Thursday. 'It's wrong.'
Obama and congressional Democrats are pushing to severely limit such deals, a move resisted by Republicans who argue the entire corporate tax code needs an overhaul.
At issue are companies that enter into arrangements with foreign companies, shifting their tax addresses overseas while retaining their U.S. headquarters.

Read more here

Edited by OverSword, 25 July 2014 - 05:38 PM.


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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:42 PM

That most probably is not the solution, the solution is that taxes should be paid there where the money is earned and that should be agreed world wide.

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#3    Bama13

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:56 PM

I have absolutely no problem with anyone that uses all legal means to avoid paying more in taxes.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:00 PM

View PostBama13, on 25 July 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

I have absolutely no problem with anyone that uses all legal means to avoid paying more in taxes.

Which ends up in you paying more than you should because those who have a better accountant don't.

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#5    Bama13

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:03 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 25 July 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Which ends up in you paying more than you should because those who have a better accountant don't.

I take every legal deduction I can so why shouldn't every one else. Wouldn't it be hypocritical to think otherwise?

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:08 PM

View PostBama13, on 25 July 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

I take every legal deduction I can so why shouldn't every one else. Wouldn't it be hypocritical to think otherwise?

Well, if you want to keep paying more than your share go ahead, I'll rather have some corporate deadbeats (who freeload of the governments they don't pay any taxes to) pay some instead of me.

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#7    OverSword

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:24 PM

To me it's not about taxes.  To me it's about these companies showing a bit of loyalty to the American system to which they owe their existence.  They are not head quartered on the canary islands.  The next step after this should be regulations and financial incentives for ensuring that they don't export jobs to other countries.


#8    Perceptivum

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:26 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 25 July 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Well, if you want to keep paying more than your share go ahead, I'll rather have some corporate deadbeats (who freeload of the governments they don't pay any taxes to) pay some instead of me.

You and Bama13 are talking about two different taxes here.  Bama13 is discussing his personal income tax, while you and Obama are referring to corporate income tax.  I, as well as many millions of Americans, use accountants, or software or our brains, to legally deduct as much from our own personal income tax as possible so as to pay as little, under the law, as possible.  Corporations are taking their legal entity overseas as to limit the CORPORATE income tax imposed on the corporate entity.  Limiting the tax burden on the corporation leads to increased earnings after tax and has a flow-down effect to shareholders.  I have no issue with corporations doing this - this situation just brings to light the immediate necessity of overhauling the corporate tax code.  A reduction in corporate income tax base would not adversely impact an individuals income tax burden, i.e., the U.S. government will not tax the individual more to make up for the corporate tax loss they will simply raise the corporate rate to offset.

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:26 PM

View PostOverSword, on 25 July 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

To me it's not about taxes.  To me it's about these companies showing a bit of loyalty to the American system to which they owe their existence.  They are not head quartered on the canary islands.  The next step after this should be regulations and financial incentives for ensuring that they don't export jobs to other countries.

To me its about justice, if you demand equal protection you have to contribute equally. The money is secondary.

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:27 PM

View PostPerceptivum, on 25 July 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

You and Bama13 are talking about two different taxes here.  Bama13 is discussing his personal income tax, while you and Obama are referring to corporate income tax.  I, as well as many millions of Americans, use accountants, or software or our brains, to legally deduct as much from our own personal income tax as possible so as to pay as little, under the law, as possible.  Corporations are taking their legal entity overseas as to limit the CORPORATE income tax imposed on the corporate entity.  Limiting the tax burden on the corporation leads to increased earnings after tax and has a flow-down effect to shareholders.  I have no issue with corporations doing this - this situation just brings to light the immediate necessity of overhauling the corporate tax code.  A reduction in corporate income tax base would not adversely impact an individuals income tax burden, i.e., the U.S. government will not tax the individual more to make up for the corporate tax loss they will simply raise the corporate rate to offset.

Well, if corporations suddenly are persons (see Hobby Lobby) then they should also pay income taxes instead of corporate taxes.

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#11    We are lizard people

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:33 PM

This Obama guy....

Only a year or two ago this man reprimands the country that we must embrace globalism and the emerging one world economy.

Now he wants to be "patriotic"?


#12    Bama13

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:43 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 25 July 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Well, if you want to keep paying more than your share go ahead, I'll rather have some corporate deadbeats (who freeload of the governments they don't pay any taxes to) pay some instead of me.

If we really want to cut the amount we have to pay in taxes then we need to corral government spending. Do that and we can all pay less.

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#13    Babe Ruth

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:08 PM

View PostWe are lizard people, on 25 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

This Obama guy....

Only a year or two ago this man reprimands the country that we must embrace globalism and the emerging one world economy.

Now he wants to be "patriotic"?

Like so many other qualities, including beauty, patriotism is very much in the eye of the beholder, a subjective evaluation.

Some consider it patriotic to keep innocent men in Gitmo, for example, or patriotic to support crimes committed in Gaza, or patriotic to torture people in a "24" type scenario.


#14    aztek

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:20 PM

if they didn't make laws that made companies move overseas in a first place, they would not have to put any limits.  or be in this mess at all.

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:35 PM

View Postaztek, on 25 July 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

if they didn't make laws that made companies move overseas in a first place, they would not have to put any limits.  or be in this mess at all.

Well, they (if you mean the US government) did not make the laws. Places like Turk and Caicos or Cayman Islands or Ireland made those laws. They have failed to make laws that say that if you earn money in the US you pay taxes in the US. (Strangely for those who have to pay income taxes and are US nationals there are laws requiring them to pay on all over $75,000 even when they live abroad and if there is no double taxation agreement even if they pay taxes abroad).

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