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regulations are illegal laws.


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#1    danielost

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:58 PM

Regulations are laws that do not go through the congress or the president.  According go the constitution all laws must go through the congress and signed by the president.  Current regulations are designed to keep business start ups.  This is true at the local, state, and national levels.

I say stop jnforcing All regulations that Haven't gone through the proper channels.  If congress gets the hands full of these little laws, maybe they won't hurt the country as quickly.


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#2    Neognosis

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:23 PM

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

What regulations? Can you name one for us to discuss?


#3    keithisco

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:35 PM

A Law is the defining Top Level Act that defines punishment. The Regulations tell you how to comply with the law so that you do not become liable.

Simple.


#4    questionmark

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:38 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 26 July 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

A Law is the defining Top Level Act that defines punishment. The Regulations tell you how to comply with the law so that you do not become liable.

Simple.

Well there is another definition of law, which is the basic law from which all other laws derive, called constitution. But basically you defined it correctly.

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#5    preacherman76

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 26 July 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

A Law is the defining Top Level Act that defines punishment. The Regulations tell you how to comply with the law so that you do not become liable.

Simple.

Is a executive order considered a regulation? 0bama just banned all AK 47 sales from Russia, in a totaly illegal move to implement gun control, completly by passing due process. I think thats a good example of what DL is talking about. Agencies like child protective service, or the EPA pass all kinds of regulations with no due process as well. Many peoples lives are ruined through regulations enforced by these agencies with no actual law passed. Ive heard of people having their children taken forever simply cause the child protective service agent didnt like they way they were spoken to by parents. Often these agencies have judges in their back pockets and will do what ever is asked. Ive even heard of child protective service completly ignoring orders from judges to return children. Acting totaly outside the rule of law, and get away with it.

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#6    Harte

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:12 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 26 July 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Is a executive order considered a regulation? 0bama just banned all AK 47 sales from Russia, in a totaly illegal move to implement gun control, completly by passing due process. I think thats a good example of what DL is talking about. Agencies like child protective service, or the EPA pass all kinds of regulations with no due process as well. Many peoples lives are ruined through regulations enforced by these agencies with no actual law passed. Ive heard of people having their children taken forever simply cause the child protective service agent didnt like they way they were spoken to by parents. Often these agencies have judges in their back pockets and will do what ever is asked. Ive even heard of child protective service completly ignoring orders from judges to return children. Acting totaly outside the rule of law, and get away with it.
While it's true that many regulations are onerus and result in bad situations, the fact is, broad power to create regulations is mandated by the laws that create the regulatory agency.  In your example of the EPA, this is the case.

The DCS example you use is not the result of any regulation, unless the offended agent actually observed violations of law that reach the threshold created for taking away children.

Otherwise, it's an illegal act.

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#7    danielost

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:39 PM

The epa uses regulations that it has passed to steal land from farmers.  Claiming said land is on an ancient we land.  Even tho it is the DND of a drainage pipe.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#8    Agent0range

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:42 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 26 July 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Is a executive order considered a regulation? 0bama just banned all AK 47 sales from Russia, in a totaly illegal move to implement gun control, completly by passing due process. I think thats a good example of what DL is talking about. Agencies like child protective service, or the EPA pass all kinds of regulations with no due process as well. Many peoples lives are ruined through regulations enforced by these agencies with no actual law passed. Ive heard of people having their children taken forever simply cause the child protective service agent didnt like they way they were spoken to by parents. Often these agencies have judges in their back pockets and will do what ever is asked. Ive even heard of child protective service completly ignoring orders from judges to return children. Acting totaly outside the rule of law, and get away with it.

Right?  Who do the EPA and Child Protective Services think they are?  Telling me that I have to have heat in my house, food in my refrigerator and clothes on my kids back?  What do you mean I can't dump my used motor oil in my yard?  It's my yard!  Those people have lost their minds. :tu:

You can't get a cigar from Cuba, and you are crying about AK-47's from Russia?

Edited by Agent0range, 26 July 2014 - 03:44 PM.


#9    preacherman76

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:49 PM

View PostHarte, on 26 July 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

While it's true that many regulations are onerus and result in bad situations, the fact is, broad power to create regulations is mandated by the laws that create the regulatory agency.  In your example of the EPA, this is the case.

The DCS example you use is not the result of any regulation, unless the offended agent actually observed violations of law that reach the threshold created for taking away children.

Otherwise, it's an illegal act.

Harte

Is that not unconstitutional though? Does it not promise due process of law in every area where government enforces? How can that happen when a agency can create laws not passed by elected officials? I dont see anywhere in the constitution where the government can grant a agency permission to pass law unrepresented. Calling it a regulation, instead of a law, makes it no less binding. Thats practically like a mini dictatorship. If thats the case, then constitutionaly regulations not passed by elected servents should have no power over people.

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#10    preacherman76

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:58 PM

View PostAgent0range, on 26 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Right?  Who do the EPA and Child Protective Services think they are?  Telling me that I have to have heat in my house, food in my refrigerator and clothes on my kids back?  What do you mean I can't dump my used motor oil in my yard?  It's my yard!  Those people have lost their minds. :tu:

You can't get a cigar from Cuba, and you are crying about AK-47's from Russia?

Yeah, cause thats what I was trying to say. :rolleyes:  Its down right scary what some folks convince themselfs of.

Did one man "with a pen" decide for us all that we cant get cuban cigars? Declaring the power to do so through national emergency powers? Thats the difference here. Talk about missing the point.

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#11    rashore

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:11 PM

View Postdanielost, on 26 July 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Regulations are laws that do not go through the congress or the president.  According go the constitution all laws must go through the congress and signed by the president.  Current regulations are designed to keep business start ups.  This is true at the local, state, and national levels.

I say stop jnforcing All regulations that Haven't gone through the proper channels.  If congress gets the hands full of these little laws, maybe they won't hurt the country as quickly.

Since this is an international forum, and not everyone may be well acquainted with the U.S. constitution.... Could you cite the part of the constitution you are referring to please?

Your ad hominem connotes your sciolism. Now that is some funny commentary.

#12    Harte

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:15 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 26 July 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Is that not unconstitutional though? Does it not promise due process of law in every area where government enforces? How can that happen when a agency can create laws not passed by elected officials? I dont see anywhere in the constitution where the government can grant a agency permission to pass law unrepresented. Calling it a regulation, instead of a law, makes it no less binding. Thats practically like a mini dictatorship. If thats the case, then constitutionaly regulations not passed by elected servents should have no power over people.
Congress is empowered by the Constitution to pass legislation.

Congress need not pass by legislation such things as how many ppm of carbon can come out of a smokestack, although they could if they wanted to.

Such regulation is delegated to the regulatory agemncy by the legislation  that created it.

The Constitution doesn't say that every minute detail of any Federal rule has to be passed by legislation.  The Constitution grants Congress leeway in that sort of situation.

This is because Congress is elected, and can be unelected. Also, because Congress can act, if a regulation imposed doesn't suit them.

Harte

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#13    preacherman76

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

View PostHarte, on 26 July 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

Congress is empowered by the Constitution to pass legislation.

Congress need not pass by legislation such things as how many ppm of carbon can come out of a smokestack, although they could if they wanted to.

Such regulation is delegated to the regulatory agemncy by the legislation  that created it.

The Constitution doesn't say that every minute detail of any Federal rule has to be passed by legislation.  The Constitution grants Congress leeway in that sort of situation.

This is because Congress is elected, and can be unelected. Also, because Congress can act, if a regulation imposed doesn't suit them.

Harte

Actually it does. I dont see anywhere in the constitution where it gives congress the power to give its power away to a unelected agency. Its why many feel that giving the federal reserve the power to print money is unconstitutional. By a litteral reading of said document, they are correct in saying so. Nor do I see where it gives congress or any other part of government the power to enforce anything, however minute, without passing legislation. Due process, rule of law. Know ye not these things?

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#14    questionmark

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:35 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 26 July 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Actually it does. I dont see anywhere in the constitution where it gives congress the power to give its power away to a unelected agency. Its why many feel that giving the federal reserve the power to print money is unconstitutional. By a litteral reading of said document, they are correct in saying so. Nor do I see where it gives congress or any other part of government the power to enforce anything, however minute, without passing legislation. Due process, rule of law. Know ye not these things?

So according to you Congress has to come in person and enforce the laws?

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#15    preacherman76

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:38 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

So according to you Congress has to come in person and enforce the laws?

Please do tell. How exactly, from reading my post, did you come up with that?

edit to add- Im not saying agencies involved in enforcement are unconstitutional. Im saying agencies who enforce their own legislation, NOT passed by congress, are unconstitutional. Though I suspect you already knew that.

Edited by preacherman76, 26 July 2014 - 04:42 PM.

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