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When is a UN Resolution NOT a UN Resolution ?


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#16    Yamato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:01 AM

View PostRoofGardener, on 28 July 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

It's an interesting thought Tiggs. However, I was under the vague impression that all SC Resolutions incorporated instructions on how to accomplish it.. and they where also usually balanced, ensuring that the Resolution itself didn't become a tactical weapon ?

Oh well.. no doubt al will become clear.
It doesn't even matter, because as soon as you add "or else we'll do x", the US will veto it by default.  So yeah, it's more difficult.

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#17    RoofGardener

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:05 AM

Hmm.... I'm not sure that's historically accurate, Yamato ? I think you'll find that the US has withheld its veto, on a large number of occasions.

Anyway, that's not really why I started this thread. I was more interested in the procedural aspects of the current statement. The story states that the Security Council issued a statement, but.... it never said anything about voting on it ?

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#18    Sir Smoke aLot

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:19 AM

View Postand then, on 28 July 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

I'm speaking in a broader sense when I explain the end result.  Israel - unlike Iran or possibly Pakistan someday - would only ever use a nuke as a last resort.  Truly the name of that strategy is fitting the "Samson" option.  It's actually just a fancy way of saying M.A.D.  but Israel is governed by people who love LIFE and they know that to survive they must get along to the extent they can with those who virulently hate them.  But when that hate is no longer contained and the world finally comes for them, whether in the form of a coalition attack or a great power assault, the Jews have decided - rightly - that they will NOT burn alone.  All of the suppositions that you and others make about the future of Israel fly in direct opposition to the facts that have been repeatedly displayed concerning their treatment by their enemies.  Dress it up in any language you like but the bottom line is that the "solution" always, always leaves Israel smaller and weaker and subject to the whims of a murderous enemy.  My prognostication about the world being badly burned doesn't even need prophecy to be seen - just common sense.

Pakistan has got them nukes but i haven't seen them fire so far... I don't trust any country who got them nukes, no one can assure me that there is no chance of those nukes to end up in bad hands and there is same chance for such thing to happen in both Pakistan and Israel.

'What would happen' can't be an excuse to call one country a terrorist country and you can't use something that i COULD do to justify your self. As for people who love life, well, over 1000 civilians dead in Gaza speaks different, or is it enough to care for your own life to be described as an life keeper?

Double standards are worst problem of society everywhere and UN has lost faith that people have in them, they just take their big wages while its hard to see results on the field. Not only because of Palestine, remember Rwanda, Srebrenica... The list goes on, there is something called ' VETO ' and mostly that is more important then the lives of hundreds or thousands of people. So about the UN, they can make all sorts of decisions and they can try to urge on countries to do something but UN doesn't have the power to implement anything anywhere. I lost faith in them long ago they are just a tool in the hands of powerful.

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#19    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:10 PM

View PostRoofGardener, on 28 July 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

It's an interesting thought Tiggs. However, I was under the vague impression that all SC Resolutions incorporated instructions on how to accomplish it.. and they where also usually balanced, ensuring that the Resolution itself didn't become a tactical weapon ?

Oh well.. no doubt al will become clear.


I don't think that can be the case.

UN resolutions 244 and 338 telling Israel to get out of the occupied lands of 1967.
Did they have threatening language in the "or else" part of it? Not that I ever saw.
Maybe when Saddam was in Kuwait.

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#20    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 28 July 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

And the Palestinians are the rightful owners?
How many of them actually had papers/deeds to the land they were kicked off of from?

Many of the Pals had title to their homes, farms/land.

But in 1967 when Israel "defended themselves" in West bank, the second building they destroyed was the Registry of Deeds. That was done so that any Palestinian holding title to a home/land cannot match it up with the deed, and the Israeli courts say, "See ya! Too bad, you lose"

You may be surprised to know that many Palestinian homes go back to the time of Christ and they actually lived with the Sephardi Jews. There was no problem, *until* the blowhard Euro Ashkenazi Jews came into the Levant. Then.....

Problem.

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#21    Yamato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:33 PM

View PostRoofGardener, on 29 July 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Hmm.... I'm not sure that's historically accurate, Yamato ? I think you'll find that the US has withheld its veto, on a large number of occasions.

Anyway, that's not really why I started this thread. I was more interested in the procedural aspects of the current statement. The story states that the Security Council issued a statement, but.... it never said anything about voting on it ?
You're not sure, you didn't have to say that.   On a large number of what occasions?    I'm not talking about non-binding resolutions that don't come from the Security Council, I'm talking about what you're talking about.  

I'm not really interested in the UN making a statement, and far less interested in something as boring as the procedure behind it.

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#22    and then

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:33 PM

View PostSir Smoke aLot, on 29 July 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Pakistan has got them nukes but i haven't seen them fire so far... I don't trust any country who got them nukes, no one can assure me that there is no chance of those nukes to end up in bad hands and there is same chance for such thing to happen in both Pakistan and Israel.

'What would happen' can't be an excuse to call one country a terrorist country and you can't use something that i COULD do to justify your self. As for people who love life, well, over 1000 civilians dead in Gaza speaks different, or is it enough to care for your own life to be described as an life keeper?

Double standards are worst problem of society everywhere and UN has lost faith that people have in them, they just take their big wages while its hard to see results on the field. Not only because of Palestine, remember Rwanda, Srebrenica... The list goes on, there is something called ' VETO ' and mostly that is more important then the lives of hundreds or thousands of people. So about the UN, they can make all sorts of decisions and they can try to urge on countries to do something but UN doesn't have the power to implement anything anywhere. I lost faith in them long ago they are just a tool in the hands of powerful.
Ahh but if I say "the sun will rise tomorrow" then it has a little more reliability than if I say Hamas will stick to THIS truce..no, really they will...
Those who observe this situation carefully realize that both have done wrong but primarily it is the Palestinian who has chosen to literally die before accepting a process begun by the UN many years ago.  Israel EXISTS.  Israel is never going to be pushed into the sea but the Palestinians appear willing to fight and die for a hundred years or more to make that happen.  While I admire their tenacity I think they would not be so dogged if their leaders did not push the issue so fervently.  Anyway, bottom line is that neither the Palestinians nor the international community are going to shame Israelis into suicide.  So if the bloodletting must continue for a century then it must.  It wouldn't be the first or last time such intractable hatred has been sown.

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#23    Sir Smoke aLot

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:34 AM

View Postand then, on 29 July 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Ahh but if I say "the sun will rise tomorrow" then it has a little more reliability than if I say Hamas will stick to THIS truce..no, really they will...
Those who observe this situation carefully realize that both have done wrong but primarily it is the Palestinian who has chosen to literally die before accepting a process begun by the UN many years ago.  Israel EXISTS.  Israel is never going to be pushed into the sea but the Palestinians appear willing to fight and die for a hundred years or more to make that happen.  While I admire their tenacity I think they would not be so dogged if their leaders did not push the issue so fervently.  Anyway, bottom line is that neither the Palestinians nor the international community are going to shame Israelis into suicide.  So if the bloodletting must continue for a century then it must.  It wouldn't be the first or last time such intractable hatred has been sown.

About that hatred... Did you see videos from latest gatherings in Israel... The crowd cheers, calls out this lines '' there is no need for education in Gaza, there are no children there anymore ''.

https://www.youtube....h?v=h7qFACSfd_k

I was so sad and mad at same time after seeing few videos and no one can tell me that Israelis aren't the same kind of haters that they accuse Palestinians to be so please, what does show even more hate is the fact that IDF use airplanes against people who don't have any modern weapon. 2nd day of Eid - 60 air strikes on Gaza. Love, peace, civilization. Check out video please.

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#24    Yamato

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:42 AM

View PostSir Smoke aLot, on 30 July 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

About that hatred... Did you see videos from latest gatherings in Israel... The crowd cheers, calls out this lines '' there is no need for education in Gaza, there are no children there anymore ''.

https://www.youtube....h?v=h7qFACSfd_k

I was so sad and mad at same time after seeing few videos and no one can tell me that Israelis aren't the same kind of haters that they accuse Palestinians to be so please, what does show even more hate is the fact that IDF use airplanes against people who don't have any modern weapon. 2nd day of Eid - 60 air strikes on Gaza. Love, peace, civilization. Check out video please.
Israel is fricking insane.

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#25    RoofGardener

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:59 AM

View PostYamato, on 29 July 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

You're not sure, you didn't have to say that.   On a large number of what occasions? I'm not talking about non-binding resolutions that don't come from the Security Council, I'm talking about what you're talking about.  

I'm not really interested in the UN making a statement, and far less interested in something as boring as the procedure behind it.

Then kindly take your off-topic ramblings into another thread, and leave THIS one (just one) for those of us who ARE interested in what the UN is doing :)

Thank Heaven! the crisis, The danger, is past,
And the lingering illness Is over at last—
And the fever called "Living"
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#26    Sir Smoke aLot

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:05 AM

View PostYamato, on 30 July 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Israel is fricking insane.

I feel sorry for everyone who cheers over children deaths. There is no excuse for that :(

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#27    and then

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 06:11 PM

View PostSir Smoke aLot, on 30 July 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

About that hatred... Did you see videos from latest gatherings in Israel... The crowd cheers, calls out this lines '' there is no need for education in Gaza, there are no children there anymore ''.

https://www.youtube....h?v=h7qFACSfd_k

I was so sad and mad at same time after seeing few videos and no one can tell me that Israelis aren't the same kind of haters that they accuse Palestinians to be so please, what does show even more hate is the fact that IDF use airplanes against people who don't have any modern weapon. 2nd day of Eid - 60 air strikes on Gaza. Love, peace, civilization. Check out video please.
It and those in the crowd ARE as hateful as the Palestinians who are firing the rockets - no doubt.  What they are doing is disgusting.  I have never said nor even thought that Israelis as a group were clean of innocent blood in this conflict.  But I have always said that they would stop warring if given a chance - Egypt and Jordan prove this point.  The Palestinians however simply will NOT stop.  They have bet everything on cleaning the land of the Jew.  What these young men are doing is just as much perpetuating the death and misery as what the Palestinian young men are doing.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
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#28    Yamato

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 06:30 PM

View PostRoofGardener, on 30 July 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Then kindly take your off-topic ramblings into another thread, and leave THIS one (just one) for those of us who ARE interested in what the UN is doing :)
I am discussing this topic 'and then', I don't have to agree with your opinion on it.   And you still can't answer my questions.  There has never been a binding UN Resolution against Israel that the US hasn't vetoed, so who cares?  

On a large number of what occasions?   It's on topic, you made the claim not me, now please enlighten us on what the hell you're talking about.   Why do I always have to ask you a question twice?    If you're not prepared to answer hard questions, you're not prepared for me.

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#29    RoofGardener

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:58 AM

Yamato, check out your post #21.

"I'm not really interested in the UN making a statement, and far less interested in something as boring as the procedure behind it."

You effectively stated that you have no interest in discussing this topic... and then get huffy when I accuse you of posting off-topic ?
I'm not trying to suppress you from expressing your opinion (I'd need special safety equipment to attempt THAT... ) .. just asking that you respect the topic ?
If you want to make general anti-Israeli comments, there are LOADS of other topics dedicated to that ... many of them started by yourself.

Thank Heaven! the crisis, The danger, is past,
And the lingering illness Is over at last—
And the fever called "Living"
  Is conquered at last.

#30    Yamato

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:16 AM

View PostRoofGardener, on 02 August 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Yamato, check out your post #21.

"I'm not really interested in the UN making a statement, and far less interested in something as boring as the procedure behind it."

You effectively stated that you have no interest in discussing this topic... and then get huffy when I accuse you of posting off-topic ?
I'm not trying to suppress you from expressing your opinion (I'd need special safety equipment to attempt THAT... ) .. just asking that you respect the topic ?
If you want to make general anti-Israeli comments, there are LOADS of other topics dedicated to that ... many of them started by yourself.
I don't start many discussions but what's the purpose of this one?   "When is a UN Resolution not a UN Resolution?"  Never.

My post in #21.  I'll ask you again, a large number of what occasions?   I'm asking you what you're talking about, not telling you I don't want to discuss it.  Questions indicate interest, okay?   You're getting defensive because you don't want to answer the question.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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