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Satanists demand religious exemption

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#31    Yamato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:25 AM

Which raises the question, would taxation be more separation or less?

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#32    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:32 AM

View PostF3SS, on 29 July 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Well you were going somewhere. Is the church of satan personal for you? Am I honestly supposed to take seriously mainstream satanists? Give me a break. Next to that, they have a belief system that reflects a political party more than it does a religion. I believe the definition of a religion is the belief in a supernatural power. That's my real gripe with this. What qualifies as a religion? Any group of several people who believe in ten of the same things?

You give a religion an exemption from a law you give exemptions to all religions. No matter how stupid they are. That's religious freedom. You can't selectively discriminate.

There is no defined line that deterimes what is and is not a religion. To some it is a group of like minded people, to others it is stories that are thousands of years old.

I have no connection with any religion. I am as non religious as a person can be. So you can not take mainstream satanists seriously as much as you want. I don't take them seriously either. I also don't take christian seriously.

Edit: this stupid tablet makes me jumble sentences up incomprehensibly.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 29 July 2014 - 02:33 AM.

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#33    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:36 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 29 July 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

the separation of church and state is there for a reason and the "state" maybe shouldn't be giving anything special at all to any of them.

I think that should be the crux of the issue right there.

"You do not teach the paths of the forest to an old gorilla."


"It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired - you quit when the gorilla is tired."


RAPTORS! http://www.unexplain...pic=233151&st=0


#34    F3SS

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:52 AM

I think the crux of the issue to first determine what is a religion in the eyes of the law. Only after that, we can then determine who is fit for a religious exemption.
Until then, if there is no legally defined line then it stands to reason that the Oxford Dictionary settles the matter. It is defined as the belief in the supernatural and the Satanic Temple explicitly states it has nothing to do with the supernatural. Therefore, no exemption. Argument over.

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#35    Yamato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:04 AM

View PostF3SS, on 29 July 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Well you were going somewhere. Is the church of satan personal for you? Am I honestly supposed to take seriously mainstream satanists? Give me a break. Next to that, they have a belief system that reflects a political party more than it does a religion. I believe the definition of a religion is the belief in a supernatural power. That's my real gripe with this. What qualifies as a religion? Any group of several people who believe in ten of the same things?
Satanists don't have belief in supernatural power?   Satan's been de-clawed?  What?  Who didn't inform of this?

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#36    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:04 AM

View PostF3SS, on 29 July 2014 - 02:52 AM, said:

I think the crux of the issue to first determine what is a religion in the eyes of the law. Only after that, we can then determine who is fit for a religious exemption.
Until then, if there is no legally defined line then it stands to reason that the Oxford Dictionary settles the matter. It is defined as the belief in the supernatural and the Satanic Temple explicitly states it has nothing to do with the supernatural. Therefore, no exemption. Argument over.


Who defines a religion. It cant be a goverment filled with politicians that only get voted in based on one religion aka Christianity can it. Scientology is only a religion due to power and money. Is that equal.  I still hold a beliefe in mankind however fading can I not call me and my merry men a religion or am I stuck in cult status by the very ones you think should dictate what religion is and is not.

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#37    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:06 AM

View PostYamato, on 29 July 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Satanists don't have belief in supernatural power?   Satan's been de-clawed?  What?  Who didn't inform of this?

Satanists actually do not believe in a true biblical Satan. They believe in man, science and the evolution of what we should be more like. Logical.

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#38    Skep B

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:06 AM

I've always ascribed to it being a matter of the societal acceptance that makes a Cult different to a Religion.

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#39    Yamato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:10 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 29 July 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

Satanists actually do not believe in a true biblical Satan. They believe in man, science and the evolution of what we should be more like. Logical.
Actually there are three different branches of theistic Satanists, according to the encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

So Fess's definition is met, at least in those cases.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#40    coolguy

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:14 AM

If these fake money hungry preachers on day star have exemption so why can't the satanists


#41    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:15 AM

View PostYamato, on 29 July 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

Actually there are three different branches of theistic Satanists, according to the encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

So Fess's definition is met, at least in those cases.

Yes there are those that do believe in Satan but that would put them on equal footing as those that believe in god so yes I agree. My personal opinion is that religion of any sort diserves nothing from the tax payers nor should any religion recieve tax breaks. Its a club, mind you a big one. Pay a membership fee not a goverment break in the all mighty BS.

Even the playing feild and all beliefs are done on your time and your dime.

Edited by The Silver Thong, 29 July 2014 - 03:16 AM.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#42    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:17 AM

View PostScheming B, on 29 July 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

I've always ascribed to it being a matter of the societal acceptance that makes a Cult different to a Religion.

Very true

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#43    Yamato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:21 AM

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"Thou Shalt Have a Tax Refund"  ~Satan, July 28, 2014

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#44    F3SS

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:26 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 29 July 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Who defines a religion. It cant be a goverment filled with politicians that only get voted in based on one religion aka Christianity can it. Scientology is only a religion due to power and money. Is that equal.  I still hold a beliefe in mankind however fading can I not call me and my merry men a religion or am I stuck in cult status by the very ones you think should dictate what religion is and is not.

I just addressed this in the post you quoted. I think it would be asinine for the government to define a religion. The much agreed upon reference book called The Dictionary is the only place one needs to look to know what defines a religion. When I said until then as if to say until the day the government defines it... It's a figure of speech. It did not mean that I am eagerly awaiting such a day.
And Scientology is a crock just like the satanist, except it's slightly successful.

View PostYamato, on 29 July 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

So Fess's definition is met, at least in those cases.

It wasn't mine. It was imaginarynumbers paraphrased manifesto he linked to on the previous page. I assumed the same thing as you at first.

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#45    Yamato

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:31 AM

View PostF3SS, on 29 July 2014 - 03:26 AM, said:

It wasn't mine. It was imaginarynumbers paraphrased manifesto he linked to on the previous page. I assumed the same thing as you at first.
Okay so lacking anything else then, are we ready to consider Satanism a religion and grant them a level playing field?   Have you ever listened to Bob Marley btw?

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi




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