seeder Posted July 31, 2014 #1 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Land for gas: Merkel and Putin discussed secret deal could end Ukraine crisis Germany and Russia have been working on a secret plan to broker a peaceful solution to end international tensions over the Ukraine. The Independent can reveal that the peace plan, being worked on by both Angela Merkel and Vladimir Putin, hinges on two main ambitions: stabilising the borders of Ukraine and providing the financially troubled country with a strong economic boost, particularly a new energy agreement ensuring security of gas supplies. More controversially, if Ms Merkel’s deal were to be acceptable to the Russians, the international community would need to recognise Crimea’s independence and its annexation by Russia, a move that some members of the United Nations might find difficult to stomach. Sources close to the secret negotiations claim that the first part of the stabilisation plan requires Russia to withdraw its financial and military support for the various pro-separatist groups operating in eastern Ukraine. As part of any such agreement, the region would be allowed some devolved powers. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/land-for-gas-secret-german-deal-could-end-ukraine-crisis-9638764.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted July 31, 2014 #2 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) So, two (or more) nations decide between themselves to carve up a sovereign third - because, you know, that always ends well. Edited July 31, 2014 by Leonardo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithisco Posted July 31, 2014 #3 Share Posted July 31, 2014 From the article Sources close to the secret negotiations claim that the first part of the stabilisation plan requires Russia to withdraw its financial and military support for the various pro-separatist groups operating in eastern Ukraine. As part of any such agreement, the region would be allowed some devolved powers. ... but this cannot be true because BrCornelias told us it wasn't true. To be honest these "Secret Negotiations" are an affront to Ukraine. Who should really determine Ukraine's future? Should it not be Ukraine itself? It is a huge underpopulated Sovereign Nation that could become the Bread basket of Europe, and very wealthy as well. It's future would be secure if bloody Politicians stopped trying to negotiate deals for themselves, because this is what Merkel is doing.... she wants to ensure gas supplies for Germany - no intent on finding peace and Sovereignty for Ukraine. She then has the audacity to try to dictate to the UK and USA how we should respond to the illegal annexation of the Crimea? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted July 31, 2014 #4 Share Posted July 31, 2014 This happened at the start of world war two. In fact it was the same two nations germany and Russia cutting up poor Poland. As I said earlier can you say ww3. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithisco Posted July 31, 2014 #5 Share Posted July 31, 2014 ...and so the "circle of life" continues unabated... the same old Powers leading us down the same old path of confrontation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted July 31, 2014 #6 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Don't believe everything you read. Especially if it was written with intention to twist possibly good news (about crisis ending up with agreement instead of war) into sensationalist story of treason or whatnot. Real life trolling, in other words. If it's true that Germany might sucessfully mediate between Ukraine and Russia and restore sane relations to benefit of everyone included, then it's not exchange of any land for gas, it's the change from moronic to constructive. Ukraine can and should profit from gas transit. They don't want Russia to cease to exist, they only want it to stop attempting to undermine Ukrainian sovereignty. I actually hope this could be true. Don't believe it yet, don't see how details will be worked out, but I hope. edit: she who messes with font size, dies from irritation... Saru, why can't I change the font size for only the word I selected, without having it (the size) screwed up all over the post? Edited July 31, 2014 by Helen of Annoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 31, 2014 #7 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If there were such negotiations, since the MH14 shooting they are history. But I wonder why the "secret negotiations" for the Palestinians with Israel (more or less the same deal, only it was land for peace) also by the Germans were not such a huge scandal in Britain... or maybe that was because the leading power agreed.... Some day the Ukraine and Russia will have to come to terms or we will have an all out war, so somebody has to act as go-between... especially if the involved parties don't talk to each other. And how well these negotiations may fare is evident in Israel. If Russia and the Ukraine don't agree it won't happen. And after seeing what the Western guarantees are worth (they already had a territorial integrity guarantee given for them giving up their atomic weapons) I doubt the Ukraine will go for it at least not without getting some of their nukes back. Besides that, the Crimean are slowly coming around to the fact that joining Russia might not have been such a good idea so give it a little time and we will have an interesting development there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted July 31, 2014 #8 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sounds like Peace In Our Time to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted August 1, 2014 #9 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Sounds like Peace In Our Time to me... More like keep the Gas and Oil flowing in our time, Europe's dependency on Russian oil and Gas is what driving Russian confidence. the oil and gas money is what's allowing them to tool up. you only have to look at the EU energy road-map agreement they signed with Russia in 2013. everyone is in it for their self interest, if that brings about a peace in Ukraine good, but lets not fool ourselves it will only be because it was a side issue - an unintended consequence. You only have to look at German's actions so far, wont agree to tough sanctions as proposed by the USA, which would have a real impact on the Russian economy. instead Germany goes for watered down sanctions - lets target 'Putin's cronies' You can imagine the conversation between Germany and Russia. go from talking about sanctions to discussing how they can continue to receive Russian gas - how they can work together to ensure supply isn't affected. No UN sanctions because Russia would just veto such silly notions, No trade Sanctions because Russia is now part of the World Trade Organisation. so meanwhile while the US and EU place weak sanctions which are doing nothing. Russia continues to trade with the world. when will people stop fooling themselves that the EU can do anything. Russia will do what it wants and in its own time. Russia is in the driving seat. the reliance on Russian gas and oil is the Achilles heel of the EU. If Germany still had her nuclear power stations she'd have the ability to hit Russia hard. but not now with the policy of decommissioning its nuclear power stations - Germany now more reliant on Russian Gas and that reliance is only going to increase. Edited August 1, 2014 by stevewinn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Border Collie Posted August 1, 2014 #10 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't believe this. I doubt she can deliver her side of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted August 1, 2014 #11 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't believe this. I doubt she can deliver her side of the deal. Yep, sounds like something the UKIP would do: bargain with something you don't have (i.e. enough weight to leave the EU). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Border Collie Posted August 1, 2014 #12 Share Posted August 1, 2014 See the Germany Inc thread. How strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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