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Can the West Live with ISIS?

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#1    libstaK

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:36 PM

Can the Western World live with ISIS in the Middle East?  The following opinion piece from a CNN correspondent tries to suggest it can.

All I see is a false sense of the "benign" in that ISIS is focussed on it's Caliphate at the moment and not espousing much rhetoric against the West while it's so busy.

However, the latest atrocities, which now include claims of children being beheaded is making me wonder why we are being so flacid in our response to these horrors.

What do you think?  I think this new leader is demanding obedience or pay the ultimate price.  His sense of superiority and the fear he is instilling is far greater than anything we have seen from any Middle Eastern Leader thus far.  To say his "regime" will be brutal is putting it far too mildly.  I see a threat here that Osama Bin Laden couldn't even begin to match.

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c3

Hundreds of a minority sect is being slaughtered, thousands are dying of starvation and dehydration hiding in mountainous regions, fleeing ISIS.

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_t3

Claims children are being beheaded

http://edition.cnn.c...dition.cnn.com/

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#2    and then

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:49 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 07 August 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Can the Western World live with ISIS in the Middle East?  The following opinion piece from a CNN correspondent tries to suggest it can.

All I see is a false sense of the "benign" in that ISIS is focussed on it's Caliphate at the moment and not espousing much rhetoric against the West while it's so busy.

However, the latest atrocities, which now include claims of children being beheaded is making me wonder why we are being so flacid in our response to these horrors.

What do you think?  I think this new leader is demanding obedience or pay the ultimate price.  His sense of superiority and the fear he is instilling is far greater than anything we have seen from any Middle Eastern Leader thus far.  To say his "regime" will be brutal is putting it far too mildly.  I see a threat here that Osama Bin Laden couldn't even begin to match.

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c3

Hundreds of a minority sect is being slaughtered, thousands are dying of starvation and dehydration hiding in mountainous regions, fleeing ISIS.

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_t3

Claims children are being beheaded

http://edition.cnn.c...dition.cnn.com/
ISIS is just following in the path of the prophet - http://www.hirhome.com/islam/art.htm
It isn't "hate speech" when it's truth.  It then becomes speech ABOUT hate.  In answer to the OP - the west will fight sooner or later, there will be no choice.  That is, we will fight or we will recite the shahada.  Those who ignore such threats, even minimize them for political or ideological reasons should bear a heavy burden in years to come IMO.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#3    Sir Smoke aLot

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:25 PM

View Postand then, on 07 August 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

ISIS is just following in the path of the prophet - http://www.hirhome.com/islam/art.htm
It isn't "hate speech" when it's truth.  It then becomes speech ABOUT hate.  In answer to the OP - the west will fight sooner or later, there will be no choice.  That is, we will fight or we will recite the shahada.  Those who ignore such threats, even minimize them for political or ideological reasons should bear a heavy burden in years to come IMO.

If they were following path of the prophet, as you say, they would not do crimes that they are doing. Prophet of Islam was in pain long time after he has got message from the God, only after much suffering and humiliation did Muslims start the holy war. Hey, i love that Rolex on ISIS leader's hand. True Muslim! :)

The fact that there is no western world action so far, against clearly criminal group - makes me think that they are just perfect tool to flame Islam with and actually i would not be surprised if, with time, we get more clues about possible ties between ISIS and some western power. Nothing happens by chance.

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#4    DeWitz

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 02:17 PM

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, ISIS is alleged to have slaughtered children and is confirmed to have destroyed Shi'ite and Christian shrines and monuments; their zealotry is without question, and woe betides those who try to stand in their way. On the other hand, their fanaticism cannot possibly (?) win over the hearts and minds of majority Muslims in the Near East, much less in European cities like Paris, Brussels and Stockholm. Muslims who live in Western and even Central Europe (e.g., Bosnia) have long lived alongside Western values of law, due process and order, even as they argue with European authorities about such things as the hijab.

Count me among those who take ISIS seriously but with a few grains of salt, and those who don't believe every Muslim is a latent militant or terrorist.

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#5    kartikg

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:22 PM

Let them do whatever they want as long as they don't bother your country.


#6    LEGIONS

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:33 PM

ISIS is doing what the USA would like to do ..but have to remain as if they are not ....if ISIS lights up oil fields the USA will help stop them

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#7    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:37 PM

Firstly, I would not take the word of the Western media about *ANY* entity that is also a perceived threat to Israel.
That's all America/the West needs is another protracted war to protect false-flag artist, Israel.


Secondly:
Can the West Live with ISIS?


Who asking us to?  ISIS is over there, we're over here.

Maybe the countries in that hemisphere should be the ones to 'do something'. :unsure2:

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#8    TSS

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:10 PM

(IMO) ...I'm sure the West could live with them, I don't see that in the next 5-10yrs they are going to be much of a direct issue to the West. I don't think they are going away though, and I expect them to grow.....10, 15, 20 yrs from now they could be a very real problem.

The problem I have with doing nothing is I can't separate the man next door from the man in Turkey, or Iraq, or the Philippines, or where ever...because I chat to people from all over the globe. So from my perspective "not my problem" is not a line I can take.....but then I don't have to go over there and fight, so who am I to say what should be done!! If there was a way of giving them enough rope (i.e an area of land that felt control over), and it was possible to not put boots on the ground, then i'd be all for turning every one of them into dust.

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#9    RavenHawk

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:25 PM

The world will try to ignore it and underestimate it.  It will continue with horrendous atrocities but the world will only be intent on charging Israel with Hamas’ war crimes.  It will eventually infiltrate the Iraqi army and will take Baghdad.  From there it will absorb Lebanon and Jordan.  Iraq and Jordan would normally be able to defeat them militarily, however due to the dualism in Islam, ISIS has the answer to defeat loyalty to country.  And Iraq and Jordan will not join forces because neither thinks they have too.  Will Hezbollah join or be eradicated?  How ‘bout Hamas?  When will Iran get involved?  Will they, knowing that they would be susceptible to the “inside job”?  Are we seeing a resurgence of an Alamut like power?  Once Jordan goes, there’s only desert to protect Riyadh and then would the Wahabbists join in and overthrow the Saud family?  Would the world get involved then to protect the oil resources?

Europe would be in a mess.  They’ll look elsewhere for oil and they aren’t going to get it from Russia.  Then they’ll turn to Canada and because Obama hasn’t given the go ahead for Keystone, Canada will be more than happy to send their oil to Europe instead, then we’d be screwed and then we would need the presence in the Gulf to secure the Oil competing with China.  But then China would send troops and they’ll get slaughtered.  Oh how much easier it would have been if Carter had just supported the Shah.  The Invasion of Iraq gave us a great opportunity to change things around and we’ve squandered it.  It’s going to be an ugly mess.

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#10    Raptor Witness

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:39 PM

A Christian Genocide has begun ... In Iraq and Syria, as I forecast, with beheadings as the key signpost.

Now that the gates of Hell have been opened at Mosul, and appear to prevail, what remedy is there ?

Where is the Man of Sin, who fears no army, and why did he choose Mosul?

If you understand why Mosul, then you have a prayer of closing that gate. If you cannot discern this, then they widen and engulf the entire region, creating a vacuum that Gogland's prince, will fill.

Close the gate at Mosul ...


View PostRaptor Witness, on 14 June 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

How convenient ... when you're in the midst of trouble. A good war cry always helps to unify the country.

This operation will fail, of course, and it will not prevent what is to come, because this is a war cry far above the heads of both the secular and non-secular minds in Washington.

If the Russians will not agree now to take possession of the chemical weapons in Syria, then you have an enemy far greater than Assad on your hands.

All Christians left in Syria should flee to Lebanon now, then go as far west as you can, or if you can't go west, then go south of the Golan Heights. Don't go to Jordan or Turkey. If you're in Jordan or Turkey, leave and go west as far as you can. All Christian aid organizations now working in Jordan or Turkey should abandon the camps, and take the Christians with you. Get them out. The Catholic Church should put some of their great wealth to good use, and assist in this endeavor.

If I lived in Lebanon and had permanent residence there, I would sit tight for now, and if you can, take in any Christian refugees from Syria, and the camps in Jordan and Turkey, who manage to get to Lebanon.

Israel and the U.S. must secure the chemical weapons in Syria if Russia won't agree to do it, but I doubt this will succeed without Russia's help, because Assad will likely try and hide them. Russia, on the other hand, could perhaps pressure Assad to give them up in exchange for something else. Surely there must be a crystal ball in Moscow, if nothing else.

It's pointless to arm the rebels now. In fact, arming them is the worst thing you could do, because they'll use the leftovers against Israel.

View PostRaptor Witness, on 07 January 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:



From the air, a sound like none heard by men before.

Crackling thunder, without lightning;
horizon flashes, but no rain.

A feather falls, it catches fire;
No sleep, no slumber;
free us from fear, free us from wonder.

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Edited by Raptor Witness, 07 August 2014 - 08:52 PM.

Posted Image "Make Manifest Destiny a memory ..." 12-7-2011  "When the earth is displaced fully three times at the point of destiny ..." 10-29-2013

#11    and then

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:43 PM

View PostSir Smoke aLot, on 07 August 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

If they were following path of the prophet, as you say, they would not do crimes that they are doing. Prophet of Islam was in pain long time after he has got message from the God, only after much suffering and humiliation did Muslims start the holy war. Hey, i love that Rolex on ISIS leader's hand. True Muslim! :)

The fact that there is no western world action so far, against clearly criminal group - makes me think that they are just perfect tool to flame Islam with and actually i would not be surprised if, with time, we get more clues about possible ties between ISIS and some western power. Nothing happens by chance.
Does the Qurayza (sp) tribe ring any bells?  They were defeated by Muhammad and asked to be allowed to leave their land and wealth but were massacred instead.  By Muhammad's men, while he watched.  No, Sir, these guys are emulating their prophet sure enough.  I'm glad you at least want to distance Islam from what these "men" are doing.  Can you imagine a world where they ruled?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#12    and then

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:46 PM

View PostThe Sky Scanner, on 07 August 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

(IMO) ...I'm sure the West could live with them, I don't see that in the next 5-10yrs they are going to be much of a direct issue to the West. I don't think they are going away though, and I expect them to grow.....10, 15, 20 yrs from now they could be a very real problem.

The problem I have with doing nothing is I can't separate the man next door from the man in Turkey, or Iraq, or the Philippines, or where ever...because I chat to people from all over the globe. So from my perspective "not my problem" is not a line I can take.....but then I don't have to go over there and fight, so who am I to say what should be done!! If there was a way of giving them enough rope (i.e an area of land that felt control over), and it was possible to not put boots on the ground, then i'd be all for turning every one of them into dust.
Maybe you are correct, but I'd ask you to recall the rapidity with which the "Arab spring" occurred.  Revolutionary change can come very rapidly when human beings are whipped into a frenzy.  All these guys need is a charismatic leader and enough time to build up a head of steam.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#13    TSS

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:51 PM

View Postand then, on 07 August 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

Maybe you are correct, but I'd ask you to recall the rapidity with which the "Arab spring" occurred.  Revolutionary change can come very rapidly when human beings are whipped into a frenzy.  All these guys need is a charismatic leader and enough time to build up a head of steam.

True. I should have been more specific, when I talk about us getting involved, I mean in an open way, for everyone to see. I'd suggest they might be tied up for quite a while dealing with our 'non presence' for a few yrs yet. I doubt anything is being done yet, but as that continue to grow i'd expect them to meet unexpected resistance that doesn't make the news ;)

Edited by The Sky Scanner, 07 August 2014 - 08:51 PM.

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#14    libstaK

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 09:37 PM

Here is the latest news

"The world must act before 40,000 are executed."

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c1

ISIS is too brutal for Al Qaeda?  I think we really need to absorb what that means for the world given how quickly and brutally they have been able to act thus far.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#15    and then

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 11:48 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 07 August 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Here is the latest news

"The world must act before 40,000 are executed."

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c1

ISIS is too brutal for Al Qaeda?  I think we really need to absorb what that means for the world given how quickly and brutally they have been able to act thus far.
If the world allows this to happen then I think we are on the cusp right now of a very dark time ahead.  This group is NOT a military superpower.  They may be better trained and funded than other rebel groups but there is no way they could take on the US Army for example.  Obama has planes in the air right now with food and water for those trapped but he should also send in a quick reaction force from Kuwait and also employ airpower to decimate these evil thugs in very large numbers.  If these innocents die it will be on the hands of the entire world.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...





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