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#1    Bluefinger

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:30 AM

As a Christian, I find this deeply disturbing.

Before the conversation gets hijacked, I just want to establish the topic: That the success of ISIS lends a very real threat to democracy and religious liberty in the West.  It helps to ask, "How is ISIS financing all these attacks?"  If ISIS takes root in Iraq, what is the likelihood that they will finance Islamist revolts in Western Europe, where the Muslim minorities have a growing population of people who simply will not conform to the values and laws of the democratic states they reside in?

Do you think the militant atheists can bury the hatchet against a perceived Christian threat and actually address a very realistic Islamist threat?

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#2    and then

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:59 AM

View PostBluefinger, on 11 August 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

As a Christian, I find this deeply disturbing.

Before the conversation gets hijacked, I just want to establish the topic: That the success of ISIS lends a very real threat to democracy and religious liberty in the West.  It helps to ask, "How is ISIS financing all these attacks?"  If ISIS takes root in Iraq, what is the likelihood that they will finance Islamist revolts in Western Europe, where the Muslim minorities have a growing population of people who simply will not conform to the values and laws of the democratic states they reside in?

Do you think the militant atheists can bury the hatchet against a perceived Christian threat and actually address a very realistic Islamist threat?
I don't think the fence sitters can all be grouped as "militant atheists" though that group is probably highly representative of the problem.  I think that ALL those who are skeptical about religion and want to just ignore this situation will only focus once it begins to affect them personally.  Hopefully it will not be too late in the game at that point to stop this scum.

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#3    Bluefinger

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 04:27 AM

View Postand then, on 11 August 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

I don't think the fence sitters can all be grouped as "militant atheists" though that group is probably highly representative of the problem.  I think that ALL those who are skeptical about religion and want to just ignore this situation will only focus once it begins to affect them personally.  Hopefully it will not be too late in the game at that point to stop this scum.

Historically, the West tends to be reactionary.  Additionally, there are politicians in Europe who support the Sharia law, which is the antithesis to democracy and religious liberty.  All it takes is a protest in the name of self-determination and you have a recipe for revolution.  Historically, one revolution in Europe sets of a chain-reaction of other revolutions.  

The problem is:  To be anything other than reactionary runs the risk of being used as fuel for a revolution.  Unless I'm misunderstanding something, Sharia law is not compatible with democracy.

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#4    DieChecker

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 04:44 AM

I think ISIS has basically declared War on the USA and probably will not live to regret it... They think they kicked a hornets nest and are going to be able to swat down the bugs. But actually they've opened up a cage of thousands of ticked off lions. They just don't know that they've been wiped out yet.

The US is already bombing ISIS positions and sending hundreds of troops over to Iraq to fight for the Iraqi government.

http://www.news.com....v-1227019329395

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#AmessagefromISIStoUS #US #USA This is a message for every American CitizenYou are the target of every Muslim in the world wherever you are 12:39 PM - 8 Aug 2014

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Will blow your embassys that the continued attacks on the Islamic state #CNN #NBN #AmessagefromISIStoUS #Hawaii #USA 12:08 PM - 8 Aug 2014

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On Friday US fighter jets and drones attacked three separate militants’ convoys in a bid to stop the militants advance on the Kurdish city of Erbil and to prevent a potential genocide against an estimated 40,000 Yazidi and Christian minorities besieged on Mount Sinjar.


Edited by DieChecker, 11 August 2014 - 04:45 AM.

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#5    quiXilver

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:20 AM

I'm inherently reluctant around any religious folks.  Anytime someone thinks they know and have the relationship with the one true god... it leaves no room for the rest of the universe.  All manner of horrific acts are justified when you believe you are on the side of the one true god in this game.  ISIS is the epitome of what can go wrong with belief in god.

What ISIS represents is among the darkest and most vile aspects of human nature.  I'd like to see the population as a whole stand up and shut them down.  Unfortunately, it will most likely be a protracted, and very bloody process filled with innocent civilians being caught up in something beyond their control, orchestrated by external forces.

I just can't comprehend how anyone can feel justified to commit such acts of atrocity.

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#6    Odin11

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:26 AM

View PostBluefinger, on 11 August 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

As a Christian, I find this deeply disturbing.

Before the conversation gets hijacked, I just want to establish the topic: That the success of ISIS lends a very real threat to democracy and religious liberty in the West.  It helps to ask, "How is ISIS financing all these attacks?"  If ISIS takes root in Iraq, what is the likelihood that they will finance Islamist revolts in Western Europe, where the Muslim minorities have a growing population of people who simply will not conform to the values and laws of the democratic states they reside in?

Do you think the militant atheists can bury the hatchet against a perceived Christian threat and actually address a very realistic Islamist threat?

As an Atheist I find it deeply disturbing when any child is purposely hurt.

I also find it disturbing when people only seem to care if the people being hurt are the same religion as them.

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire

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#7    Marcus Aurelius

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:10 AM

Hello everyone.

The subject of ISIS and what is happening over there has been creeping up in a lot of threads lately, and I've already commented on this, so some of you might find this familiar. But since this is the first thread actually dedicated to it that I've seen, I figured I might share some thoughts.

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As a Christian, I find this deeply disturbing.

As a Christian, I too find this deeply disturbing. But what I find equally disturbing is that both our government and its propaganda tool, aka the mainstream media has been lying to us at every turn. You all do realize that the beheadings of Christians, the burning down of churches and various other atrocities has been going on for months and months in Syria....only the MSM has been largely ignoring it or covering it up. It wasn't until that it's reached an absolute boiling point that they now have no choice but to "report" on it.

Look, as a political libertarian I hate to burst everybody's Go America! idealism here; but the fact is...we are largely to blame for this whole mess. We had no damn business meddling in the affairs of Syria, but because our Emperor was hell-bent on ousting Assad (who tolerated the Christians and other religious minorities there just fine, I might add!) we armed the very people who are committing these atrocities in Syria. Don't buy into this horse manure that we were only arming the "moderate" rebels...they don't know who their friends or enemies are over there; they don't know what the hell they were doing. Now these same rebels have spilled over into Iraq; and yet our MSM is feeding us MORE horse manure that Iraqi soldiers turned tail and ran, magically leaving all their weapons behind (despite lack of any evidence to actually substantiate this claim) so that ISIS just picked them up like a gift from the Jinn!! Please don't buy into this insane narrative.

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That the success of ISIS lends a very real threat to democracy and religious liberty in the West.

No, I attribute the threat to our democracy and religious liberty with the imperialists we have put in office; their endless meddling and spreading "democracy" under the barrel of a gun and the blowback that all of this creates. We had no business in Iraq. We had no business in Libya. We have no business in Syria. We have no business in the Ukraine. We have no business messing with Russia.

Have you not thought that even for a moment, my friend, that the West is largely responsible for this chaos all around the world? I would gently recommend that you turn off Fox News and start heading over to Infowars and listening to people like Alex Jones.

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"How is ISIS financing all these attacks?"

Through your taxpayer dollars!!!!

You read that right.

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and actually address a very realistic Islamist threat?

Well as noted, we need to clean out our own damn house first. Begin an impeachment process with the Emperor. Vote all the war-mongering Neo-cons out of office. Elect people who remember the fact that we were meant to be a republic and not an empire.

These threats come from our foreign conquests as much as anything else.

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don't think the fence sitters can all be grouped as "militant atheists" though that group is probably highly representative of the problem.  I think that ALL those who are skeptical about religion and want to just ignore this situation will only focus once it begins to affect them personally.  

I will have to disagree with you two on this one. I don't think the problem relates to atheism at all. Most atheists I know would care when someone's human rights are being violated like this. The problem I feel is with the mainstream media and its endless propaganda. People don't even know what the hell is going on, much less how to stop it.

Furthermore, because we live in a state of perpetual warfare, just like the final days of the Roman empire; I think the populace has become largely desensitized to all of these horrors...because you simply turn on the news and you see one atrocity after another after another. I think this is intentional. It's like a kind of psychological warfare designed accustom you to non-stop violence and subsequently detach yourself from it. They want you to get used to the idea of perpetual warfare. Non-stop violence is here to stay!! And of course the media blames this on anyone and everyone but from within, because of course it doesn't matter how many lives are lost as long as it's for "American exceptionalism" and spreading "democracy" through overt and covert warfare.

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To be anything other than reactionary runs the risk of being used as fuel for a revolution.

The revolution has already happened, my friend. We have lost the country to, as Bush I put it, a "New World Order" in which the democracy you and I both support is all but dead, and all we are left with is this sham illusion of "choice." Why do you think there are so many "preppers" now? Why do you think so many people are trying to get off the grid? It's because they know we have lost this once great country.

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Sharia law is not compatible with democracy.

And neither is western imperialism.

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They just don't know that they've been wiped out yet.

I wouldn't be so sure that the Americans are going to "wipe out" ISIS. Keep in mind that the USA has not won a war since World War II.

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and very bloody process filled with innocent civilians being caught up in something beyond their control, orchestrated by external forces.

Of course!!! Which will cause MORE blowback, and more ISIS minded people...for the future.

Perpetual warfare, people, perpetual warfare. Do you not see it??

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As an Atheist I find it deeply disturbing when any child is purposely hurt.

I also find it disturbing when people only seem to care if the people being hurt are the same religion as them.


I COMPLETELY agree with you, AS A CHRISTIAN. What about all the innocents that are being slaughtered in Gaza? If something isn't done to stop Israel, this could turn into a full blown genocide over there.

http://www.presstv.i...nocide-in-gaza/

I realize that a lot of my Christian and Evangelical friends on here are probably going to be infuriated by this post. But guys, we need to wake up here. Our sewing the seeds of chaos around the world to prop up the US welfare/warfare state is going to lead us right into Armageddon if we aren't careful; and I'm being deadly serious here. We are one Nuke away from the end of life on this planet.

That should be enough to give every one of us pause.

#OperationMarthasVineyard

Edited by Marcus Aurelius, 11 August 2014 - 08:30 AM.

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#8    keithisco

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:12 AM

It has been made quite clear by ISIS that ALL non - Muslims (in fact all NON _ Sunni Muslims) including us atheists, are targets for them. As an atheist I am often asked what my moral compass is - I tell them humanity. This is usually re-interpreted to be a Militant Atheist which is a complete nonsense, because that term has no meaning. Do I call for a Jihad against all religious folk? NO! I just don't want their beliefs to cause me or anybody else, reason to be concerned


#9    Bluefinger

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:32 PM

View PostOdin11, on 11 August 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:



As an Atheist I find it deeply disturbing when any child is purposely hurt.

I also find it disturbing when people only seem to care if the people being hurt are the same religion as them.

It was only a matter of time before someone would hijack the conversation and imply something that was never intended.

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#10    GreenmansGod

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:43 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 11 August 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

As a Christian, I find this deeply disturbing.

Before the conversation gets hijacked, I just want to establish the topic: That the success of ISIS lends a very real threat to democracy and religious liberty in the West.  It helps to ask, "How is ISIS financing all these attacks?"  If ISIS takes root in Iraq, what is the likelihood that they will finance Islamist revolts in Western Europe, where the Muslim minorities have a growing population of people who simply will not conform to the values and laws of the democratic states they reside in?

Do you think the militant atheists can bury the hatchet against a perceived Christian threat and actually address a very realistic Islamist threat?


How about, somebody else put boots on the ground, like Australia for a change.  Watch your children come back with missing arms and legs or  in body bags.   If you think there is away other than dropping an atomic bomb on them to stop it, then go for it.

Who really actually believes I live in a democracy, I don't, it is not even a republic anymore.  The greatest threat to democracy is the world wide ochlocracy that has a nasty habit of arming both sides in these wars just to keep the cash flow going. To make money off bombs you have to use them.  If you want to end all this nonsense find out who is arming folks like ISIS and take out the factory, you might find out it is a lot closer to home, than you think.  The whole plan behind 9/11 was to break our economy and that is just what happen.

Wake up, it has nothing to do with religion it is all about power and money.  Atheist don't care about your religion, Pagans don't care about your religion, Buddhist don't care about your religion.   Only time we care is when y'all are pushing it on everybody else. The only ones who really can't seem to deal with everybody believing as they want are the Abrahamic religions. You keep praying for Armageddon so Jesus to come back and take over the world.  Well here you go, I guess y'all got what you are praying for.  Religions of peace my a**, prove it, put down the guns.  :gun:

Edited by GreenmansGod, 11 August 2014 - 03:44 PM.

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#11    Bluefinger

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:46 PM

Just to reiterate the talking points:

The main topic is whether or not the success of ISIS in the Middle East poses a danger to democracy and religious freedom in Europe.

I'm sure that a lot of bloggers here have their own agendas and are free to express those agendas in blogs dedicated to them.  For the time being, lets please stay on topic.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#12    GreenmansGod

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:57 PM

To me I am on topic, because I have never been able to see that much difference between the Abrahamic religions. They have been used by the power brokers for control and cash flow from the get go.  I'm just not fooled by it all and I am sick of it.

"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost; for none now live who remember it."  Galadriel

#13    Bluefinger

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 04:07 PM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 11 August 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

To me I am on topic, because I have never been able to see that much difference between the Abrahamic religions. They have been used by the power brokers for control and cash flow from the get go.  I'm just not fooled by it all and I am sick of it.

Any ideal can be used as a weapon, so that really is not the topic at all.  The question is not, "How do we address a transparent threat," but rather, "How do we address a very real and tangible threat?"  
Some things relevant to the discussion would be:

1)  Does the segment of the Muslim minority in Europe that refuse to conform to democratic ideals pose a danger to Europe's stability?

2)  Does the support of Sharia law among some of Europe's politicians open a tunnel for ISIS to crawl into and destabilize the region?

3)  Could the democratic process be manipulated to establish a country ruled by Sharia law within Europe in the name of self-determination?

These are all relevant and visible threats to democracy and are worth the time discussing.  How to stamp out the existence of Abrahamic faith in the entire world is a futile and wasteful endeavor.  Such an endeavor would only further destabilize Europe and put democracy in grave danger.

Edited by Bluefinger, 11 August 2014 - 04:09 PM.

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#14    spartan max2

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 04:12 PM

I dont think the minority Muslims in Europe will "rise up" to support ISIS. Mainly because I feel like most of them moved to Europe to get away from all the religious conflict.


The genocide going on right now is horrible, but I really am not sure If we should get involved again or not. Last time it didnt really do much in the long run

Edited by spartan max2, 11 August 2014 - 04:18 PM.

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#15    quiXilver

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 04:17 PM

ISIS is a threat to any people who want to live in any way that ISIS doesn't approve of...

edit to add:  but then, this isn't just limited to ISIS...

why is it so hard to realize people are all different, always will be and that's natural?

As long as no one is being harmed, who cares if you hang from the ceiling making pictures on the floor with melted crayons wearing a thong?

Edited by quiXilver, 11 August 2014 - 04:19 PM.

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Just because you thought it, or felt it deeply, doesn't make it real, true or important.  Don't believe everything you think... ~ Creighton Larson
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