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Operation Gladio


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#1    Ichihara

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:49 PM

On the morning of 2 August 1980 bomb expleded in Bologna central station killing 85 people and wounded more than 200.
What does it  have with attack in Belgium,  NATO secret operation called Gladio and Masonic lodge Propaganda Due see in BBC documentary 'Operation Gladio'.



Further reading: Nato's Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe. Cass, London, 2004. by Swiss historian Daniele Ganser.

Edited by Ichihara, 14 August 2014 - 12:01 AM.


#2    toyomotor

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:33 AM

Operation Gladio doesn't seem to fit the bill in this scenario. The whole purpose of Gladio was to have a geurilla warfare component in place in NATO, and for that matter non Nato countries, in the event of an escalation of the Cold War.

The purpose of Gladio was not to be pre-emptive, but reactionary.



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#3    Ichihara

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 11:00 PM

did you watch documentary or read Ganser?


#4    toyomotor

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:00 AM

View PostIchihara, on 14 August 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

did you watch documentary or read Ganser?

No.

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#5    Hammerclaw

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:07 AM

The Central Intelligence Agency responded to the series of accusations made by Mr. Ganser in his book regarding the CIA's involvement in Operation Gladio, by claiming that neither Ganser nor anyone else could have solid evidence supporting their accusations. At one point in his book, Mr. Ganser even talks about the CIA's covert action policies as being "terrorist in nature" and then accuses the CIA of using their "networks for political terrorism". The CIA has responded by noting that Daniele Ganser's sourcing is "largely secondary" and that Ganser himself has complained about "not being able to find any official sources to support his charges of the CIA's or any Western European government's involvement with Gladio".

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#6    toyomotor

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:16 AM

View PostJohn Wesley Boyd, on 24 August 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

The Central Intelligence Agency responded to the series of accusations made by Mr. Ganser in his book regarding the CIA's involvement in Operation Gladio, by claiming that neither Ganser nor anyone else could have solid evidence supporting their accusations. At one point in his book, Mr. Ganser even talks about the CIA's covert action policies as being "terrorist in nature" and then accuses the CIA of using their "networks for political terrorism". The CIA has responded by noting that Daniele Ganser's sourcing is "largely secondary" and that Ganser himself has complained about "not being able to find any official sources to support his charges of the CIA's or any Western European government's involvement with Gladio".

The biggest problem, as I see it, is the fact that the US super secretive intelligence agencies have for a very long time been a law unto themselves- VietNam War CIA involvement in Drug Running; Central and Northern South America the same thing; Iran Contra sdcandal and the list goes on.

Doubtless there are other schemes that have not come to public awareness.

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#7    Hammerclaw

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:36 AM

View Posttoyomotor, on 24 August 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

The biggest problem, as I see it, is the fact that the US super secretive intelligence agencies have for a very long time been a law unto themselves- VietNam War CIA involvement in Drug Running; Central and Northern South America the same thing; Iran Contra sdcandal and the list goes on.

Doubtless there are other schemes that have not come to public awareness.
There have been times, in history of every nation, when their government's clandestine arms have felt it necessary to act outside the constraints of conventional peacetime law in order to preserve the rule of law and to combat enemies. The CIA--originally the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) was patterned after and partly trained by the British M16(Secret Intelligence Service), and more importantly the SOE, the British Special Operations Executive, on the suggestion of Canadian born Sir William Samuel Stephenson, the senior British Intelligence officer of the western hemisphere in 1940. The much more seasoned, experienced and, frankly, worldwise British trained their American protege to conduct espionage, sabotage and reconnaissance in occupied Europe against the Axis powers, and to aid local resistance movements. Curiously, the British SOE was originally involved in the formation of Auxillary Units, a secret stay-behind resistance organization, activated in the event of German occupation of Britain. Few were even aware of the SOE'S existence. It had novel names such as "Winston's Secret Army" or "Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare". From such able tutelage was the post war CIA eventually birthed. The CIA acts under executive oversight, and the ultimate responsibility for any of it's actions reside within the Oval Office.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd, 24 August 2014 - 05:00 AM.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#8    hacktorp

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:27 AM

Excellent recitation.

You've earned a biscuit.


#9    Hammerclaw

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:47 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 24 August 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Excellent recitation.

You've earned a biscuit.
Congratulations. You've earned my contempt.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd, 24 August 2014 - 06:48 AM.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#10    toyomotor

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:04 AM

JWB:

Don't mean to be rude, but I know all of that.

What you've posted does nothing to excuse CIA activity over the years-the fact that its genesis was the OSS, a war time agency, is no excuse.

The fact that other agencies around the world have broken the law is still no excuse-I know it happens, and sometimes it needs to happen, but the CIA has a record almost as dirty as that of the old KGB.

And to have the Chief Executive the only person to whom an agency such as the CIA reports, imho, a very dangerous situation.

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#11    Hammerclaw

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:39 AM

View Posttoyomotor, on 24 August 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

JWB:

Don't mean to be rude, but I know all of that.

What you've posted does nothing to excuse CIA activity over the years-the fact that its genesis was the OSS, a war time agency, is no excuse.

The fact that other agencies around the world have broken the law is still no excuse-I know it happens, and sometimes it needs to happen, but the CIA has a record almost as dirty as that of the old KGB.

And to have the Chief Executive the only person to whom an agency such as the CIA reports, imho, a very dangerous situation.
No, you don't see my point. There's nothing clean about clandestine government operations. There was nothing clean about them before there was a CIA and there's been nothing clean afterwards. The CIA didn't appear in a vacuum, but followed the precedents set by previous organizations. Cold or hot, this sort of warfare has always been a dirty business. Morally reprehensible things have been done by all sides in war and peace. Innocent people have been killed and have been allow die by the good guys in every war. The excuse has always been that it was done for a higher cause. If that excuse was good enough our for predecessors on the world stage in previous eras, then the hell with their hypocritical objections of us, today. The British most certainly have no moral high ground from which to cast stones.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd, 24 August 2014 - 07:57 AM.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#12    toyomotor

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:26 PM

I agree with what you say, it its entirety.

But the big problem, as I eluded to, is that Joe Public doesn't know what's being done in his name.

Recently, you will recall that Angela Merkal had a rant about being spied upon by the USA. Indonesia did the same about Australia.

It's all political posturing. Of course we spy on each other, and it's politically niaive to think otherwise.

Incidentally, the US has set up a new Cyber Command Base in Germany-obviously with Merkels government approval. Did she really think that her emails would not be read, especially bearing in mind that she's on good terms with Ras PUTIN.

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#13    toyomotor

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:42 PM

JWB:

Now here's a guy I wouldn't mind seeing rendered with extreme prejudice:-

Quote

British intelligence agencies MI5 and MI6 have identified the man suspected of the horrific beheading of American journalist James Foley, according to UK media reports.
The hooded man with an English accent is believed to be 23-year-old Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary, known to fellow Islamic State militants as Jihadi John.
The former rapper left his family home in an affluent west London suburb last year to fight in the civil war in Syria.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz3BKQaARY4

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#14    Hammerclaw

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:30 PM

Methinks the lady doth protest, too much. Germans--especially East Germans like Frau Merkel--expect to be spied on by everyone. Having it come out in public looks bad in the papers and upsets civilians at their breakfast, so a little staged theatrics were in order. In the meantime, she dismisses weak links in here government the Americans have conveniently--too conveniently--exposed as easily bought. She is a very wise woman, and we've come full circle, quietly. Germany is once again the dominant force driving European foreign policy, and Putin and Poroshenko trifle with this woman at their own peril.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#15    hacktorp

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:32 PM

View PostJohn Wesley Boyd, on 24 August 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

Congratulations. You've earned my contempt.

How very kind.  But do keep a small portion of that contempt.

For dipping your biscuit.





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