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San Fran Hypocrites


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#1    Merc14

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:57 PM

As many know there is a nasty ongoing drought in CA coupled with Fish and Wildlife/EPA enforced diversions of water that have devastated the farmers in the central valley.  The über-liberals in San Francisco, in turns out, have somehow managed to avoid these destructive water restrictions.  How?  Well for one Nancy Pelosi hails from San Fran and somehow, someway, the San Fran area has avoided the statutorily required ESA consultations required.  So a lawsuit is now in play.  Should be great fun to watch as the most ardent supporters of evironmentalism are forced to live with the sacrifices they have required of others.

http://www.washingto...pain-on-green-/

Edited by Merc14, 21 August 2014 - 12:59 PM.

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#2    supervike

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:43 PM

I'm sure she'll find some sort of 'reason' to justify her greedy little actions.


#3    Child of Bast

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:46 PM

During the short time I lived in CA, I seem to recall a lot of water being diverted away from the Central Valley and other farming areas in need of it to flow to the coastal cities, not just San Fran.

They've got all of these brilliant minds out there and cannot seem to figure out a way to turn the salty ocean water into potable water for the millions of people living there??

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#4    supervike

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:52 PM

View PostChild of Bast, on 21 August 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:


They've got all of these brilliant minds out there and cannot seem to figure out a way to turn the salty ocean water into potable water for the millions of people living there??

Totally agree.  It seems all the water they would ever need is just slightly to the west of them.


#5    Merc14

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:30 PM

Hard to turn salt water into fresh without lots and lots of electricity and it is hard to make electricity when the left wing wackos won't allow you to use nuclear, oil or coal in your power plants.  They really do need to break this state up into 3 or 4 smaller states.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

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#6    Beany

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:16 AM

Some California water rights are over 100 years old, outdated and antiquated, very complicated, and maybe just not practical these days, given the increasing population and pressure on water resources. Water rights is just that, a right to use the water,  the holders of water rights don't own the water. I've yet to figure out how that works. It's all permitted, and any changes in the users, purpose, or diversion are subject to scrutiny by the state water rights board and possible legal action. It's a contractual kind of thing, and any changes would have to be reviewed & approved by the authorizing agency. It's just not that simple folks. Maybe some of you want to watch the movie Chinatown, it's about water rights, or read The Milagro Beanfield War, it's also about water rights. Be outraged all you want, but there are legal consequences to violating the water rights laws in California.


#7    Wickian

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 06:08 AM

I've already abandoned the CA ship, and am glad to be gone.  Too bad a lot of my family is still stuck there.

About the ONLY thing in CA that I think is better than other states I've lived in the convenience of ANY store you can think of being less than 2 hours away, often within 30 minutes depending on where you live.


#8    Beany

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:35 PM

View PostWickian, on 22 August 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

I've already abandoned the CA ship, and am glad to be gone.  Too bad a lot of my family is still stuck there.

About the ONLY thing in CA that I think is better than other states I've lived in the convenience of ANY store you can think of being less than 2 hours away, often within 30 minutes depending on where you live.

I'm a 5th generation Californian and love it. Not so much the cities, but the landscape. Mountains, foothills, beaches, desert, farms, ranches, vineyards, groves of peaches, apricots, pears, almonds, oranges, lots of lakes, the beautiful rivers, Big Sur. This is as much California as LA or SF.


#9    Merc14

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:51 PM

View PostChild of Bast, on 21 August 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

During the short time I lived in CA, I seem to recall a lot of water being diverted away from the Central Valley and other farming areas in need of it to flow to the coastal cities, not just San Fran.

They've got all of these brilliant minds out there and cannot seem to figure out a way to turn the salty ocean water into potable water for the millions of people living there??

A lot of the water that was going into the central vallley is being dumped into the Bay-Delta ecosystem to keep it healthy.  You can argue whether or not that is worth the loss of livelihhood in the central vallley but the fact remains that San Francisco has avoided the dreaded ESA (Endangered Species Act) consultation that triggered the diversion of central valley water.   This is the point of this thread and the cause of the lawsuit submitted in federal court.  It is a double standard that forces farmers to give up water while exempting the San Fran folks for seemingly no reason other than they have the influence to hold the EPA at bay.  As I said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

"There is no difference between Communism and Socialism, except in the same ultimate end:  Communism proposes to enslave men by force, Socialism-by the vote.  It is merely the difference between murder and suicide."  - Ayn Rand

#10    Wickian

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:31 PM

View PostBeany, on 22 August 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

I'm a 5th generation Californian and love it. Not so much the cities, but the landscape. Mountains, foothills, beaches, desert, farms, ranches, vineyards, groves of peaches, apricots, pears, almonds, oranges, lots of lakes, the beautiful rivers, Big Sur. This is as much California as LA or SF.
My dislike is probably colored by the area I grew up in.


#11    Sweetpumper

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:43 PM

I like visiting but I'll be damned if I'd live there.

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#12    rashore

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:16 PM

Ok, so I know I might be waaaay off base with this notion, but:



Why can't there be ocean platforms with something like this method built on top? Or pipe in saltwater to areas that are more desertish to set up land based collectors? I realize what's in the video is pretty darn basic, but hey, CA got plenty of sun and the collected salt could be sold off as another potential profit source for CA. No serious amounts of electricity required. Or is this just a little too small scale to work up?

Your ad hominem connotes your sciolism. Now that is some funny commentary.

#13    Wickian

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

View Postrashore, on 22 August 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Ok, so I know I might be waaaay off base with this notion, but:



Why can't there be ocean platforms with something like this method built on top? Or pipe in saltwater to areas that are more desertish to set up land based collectors? I realize what's in the video is pretty darn basic, but hey, CA got plenty of sun and the collected salt could be sold off as another potential profit source for CA. No serious amounts of electricity required. Or is this just a little too small scale to work up?
I'm not sure if that would be viable for coastlines.  They're generally a lot cooler than the inland areas and often have overcast skies, the water generation from similar large scale methods would be spotty at best I think.


#14    rashore

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:29 PM

View PostWickian, on 22 August 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

I'm not sure if that would be viable for coastlines.  They're generally a lot cooler than the inland areas and often have overcast skies, the water generation from similar large scale methods would be spotty at best I think.

That's why I thought piping out to sunny dry land might be good. Nevada or Arizona would be ok in some spots maybe. Heh, maybe piping and solar collection for Las Vegas :) Take a load off for somewhere else.

Your ad hominem connotes your sciolism. Now that is some funny commentary.

#15    Beany

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:47 AM

View PostMerc14, on 22 August 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

A lot of the water that was going into the central vallley is being dumped into the Bay-Delta ecosystem to keep it healthy.  You can argue whether or not that is worth the loss of livelihhood in the central vallley but the fact remains that San Francisco has avoided the dreaded ESA (Endangered Species Act) consultation that triggered the diversion of central valley water.   This is the point of this thread and the cause of the lawsuit submitted in federal court.  It is a double standard that forces farmers to give up water while exempting the San Fran folks for seemingly no reason other than they have the influence to hold the EPA at bay.  As I said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Merc, did you not read any of my post? Water cannot be diverted unless it's part of the water rights. And many of the farmers are victims of their own decision to move to monoculture agriculture, mostly nut orchards, particularly almonds, that require more water than diversified farming. Historically, they haven't been good stewards of water resources themselves, and the decision to move to water-greedy monoculture bears that out. The only way water rights can be changed would be legally, through the courts.

Don't kid yourself about the farmers' influence, they have plenty of it. I grew up in the Central Valley, had uncles who were ranchers, prior to the era of the huge ag concerns, like Westlake Farms, who have displayed no conscience about chemical pollution from water run-off, and are one of the reasons for the degradation of the fisheries and other wildlife population.

There's a severe water shortage where I live because over the past 10 years because of the increase in viticulture. It takes a lot of water to irrigate the grapes, and the vineyards are sucking out the water like a Big Gulp with 10 straws in it. Now there may not be enough for residential use. Sorry, I'm not feeling it for the poor farmers. One almond grower in the Central Valley took out 1000 acres of almond trees because of lack of water. What did that leave him with? 7000 acres of almond orchards. Sorry, not feeling much sympathy for this guy either.





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