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Oldest metal object in Middle East discovered

copper awl tel tsaf oldest metal object

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6 replies to this topic

#1    Still Waters

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:10 PM

A copper awl is the oldest metal object unearthed to date in the Middle East. The discovery reveals that metals were exchanged across hundreds of miles in this region more than 6,000 years ago, centuries earlier than previously thought, researchers say.

http://www.foxnews.c...in-woman-grave/

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#2    Silent Trinity

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:05 AM

Very interesting! Love it when something is uncovered that is unexpected like this that causes the Archaeologists and Historians to rewrite history. Keeps them on their toes :yes:

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#3    a nice cup of tea

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:25 AM

I originally read the thread title as 'Oldest metal object in Middle Earth discovered.' Stuff that was forged when the Ents were young.

White with two sugars, please...

#4    paperdyer

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 04:15 PM

View PostStill Waters, on 23 August 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

A copper awl is the oldest metal object unearthed to date in the Middle East. The discovery reveals that metals were exchanged across hundreds of miles in this region more than 6,000 years ago, centuries earlier than previously thought, researchers say.

http://www.foxnews.c...in-woman-grave/
Don't worry.  I'm sure all the religious people that think the earth is only a little more than 2000 years old will dispute the research and keep believing they are right.


#5    nik-h

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 06:47 PM

"It's possible that we are seeing here the first indications of social hierarchy and complexity."

Fascinating! Embodied in a metal artifact, the actual point at which some bright spark decided 'I know what - let's make up loads of unnecessary and pointless ****. That way, most people will be miserable, poor and powerless!'

Yet as he spoke, one dissenting voice asked, 'Er..what for?'

Thankfully he was quickly killed and the Great Pointless Project of Needless Suffering and Futility marched on through the ages...


#6    back to earth

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 04:47 AM

View PostSilent Trinity, on 25 August 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

Very interesting! Love it when something is uncovered that is unexpected like this that causes the Archaeologists and Historians to rewrite history. Keeps them on their toes :yes:

Just because the general populace is not up to speed does not mean archeologists are not ' keeping on their toes'.  Trade networks have long been postulated to exist further back. As many misinterpret: you dont need agriculture to have a trade network.  Goods could have travelled from eastern China to India and Morocco (as they are known today).

Gobekli Tepe looks like they didnt even need an agricultural society to build that.

Archeology just goes on the evidence ... it doesnt say things never happened, just that no record has been found of it yet.  Also there are other dynamics. Have you ever looked into Soviet Archeology (who did all of it in Central Asia up to 1970 ).  With history ... there is speculative history; drawn from other sources than biased Greeks, like the Iranians and Zoroastrians.

If we tend to accept our cultural paradigms or nationalistic prejudices, you cant blame archeologists and historians in general (except those individuals whose paradigms and prejudices outweigh their 'science' ) ...   there is certainly archeological work going on at present that is continually extending the idea of 'civilisation' back a lot further than the previously available evidence allowed.

Going way back, gold and meteoric iron was available.  Even the 'Bog Man' showed evidence of being able to mine ore, smelt, and cast his hand axe by himself (which the scientist kept trying to do and only reproduced an inferior quality that broke easily), he was a wanderer, or at least on a journey, so didnt live in an agricultural settlement.


Trade routes have gone from near the west coast of Australia ( eg. an ochre mine  that sowed processing, division of labour, production line, etc) - still operational in 1950 ) to the Gulf of carpentaria and the Top End  (check map - looooong ) ... they know as they have examined the ochre and thats where it came from .... before European settlement ... the trade routes could be 40,000 years old here.   Aside from the journey to get to all these places in the first place.

So we certainly have evidence of people being able to make metal objects loooong before they became entrenched as  even familiar, yet alone a paradigm, and trade them vast distances, way before the advent of agriculture ... and perhaps 'civilisation' as it is sometimes defined.

Edited by back to earth, 30 August 2014 - 04:47 AM.

And if a bird can speak, who once was a dinosaur,
and a dog can dream; should it be implausible
that a man might supervise
the construction of light
https://www.youtube....h?v=RQ1JyLVd4ZU

#7    back to earth

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 04:56 AM

Not' History' as such but pre history :

The Avestas state that the usage of metal in the parent civilisation predated the moving of the central complex of the 'Empire', which was due to climate change ( it got much colder and dryer, requiring a shift in homeland).

Knowledge of Central Asia's climate and climate changes during the past 12,000 years can assist in an understanding of the historical periods in Central Asia. For instance, in an event called the Younger Dryas, the earth is known to have experienced a sudden cooling starting 12,800 years from the present, with the cooling lasting about 1,200 years. In addition, there is evidence of more recent and shorter cooling spells of, say, 100 years. Different regions could have experienced different degrees of change and a severe cooling event could also have been regional rather than global. If the location of Airyana Vaeja was an area like the Pamirs, a 50 to 100C drop in average temperatures would have been sufficient to make winter life very harsh (Vendidad, a book of the Zoroastrian scriptures, chapter 1.2 and 2.22). We are informed by the Avesta, that after the change in climate, the warm months (the rapithwan months) in Airyana Vaeja were shortened from the normal seven months to two months in duration (Vendidad 1.3, notes in Vendidad Sada and Bundahishn 25 - the warm months being those when the ground waters are cooler than the surface).

http://www.heritagei.../prehistory.htm

This would have caused a ' migration' eastwards into already established centres associated within  the empire ... including the Caucasus , the source of the metal in the awl.

Edited by back to earth, 30 August 2014 - 04:59 AM.

And if a bird can speak, who once was a dinosaur,
and a dog can dream; should it be implausible
that a man might supervise
the construction of light
https://www.youtube....h?v=RQ1JyLVd4ZU




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