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Is this a kidnap, or is it just parental love


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#1    seeder

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:35 AM

In the UK news this is everywhere. A small boy with brain cancer.. that the UK hospital failed to treat, or wouldn't treat due to cost, was removed from the hospital by his parents, who then went to Spain..

A European arrest warrant was issued, the family were found in Spain, the boy taken to hospital and the parents held in jail.

Now the UK cops say they feared for his safety, hence the arrest warrant, but a large public majority claim it was unnecessary heavy handed police action. The parents had planned well, had the special feeding device and many packs of the special food the boy needed... and now they are sitting in jail charged (perhaps) with child cruelty!  So what do you think of the parents actions?

Heres the story, the article shares two vids by the boys family, so do watch if you can

Parents of 'kidnapped' cancer boy Ashya held in cells at Madrid court ahead of extradition hearing this afternoon over child cruelty claims - while their son remains alone in Spanish hospital

Brett and Nagmeh King took Ashya from Southampton General Hospital
They are now being held in Madrid for extradition hearing this afternoon
They were arrested in the city of Malaga on Saturday after a three-day hunt
Naveed King posted a new video on YouTube defending his parents
Said terminally ill Ashya was happy and comfortable while travelling to Spain
Couple's six other children staying in nearby hostel with eldest son Danny
Ashya's grandmother says family has 'begged' to see him but was refused
PM has 'sympathy' for parents and says that Ashya's health comes first


Key bit:

"Ashya has undergone major surgery for an aggressive brain tumour and is kept alive by a feeding tube. NHS cancer specialists told his family that the boy cannot be saved and will die within four months.

But his parents refused to accept this prognosis and took their son and their six other children on a ferry to France on Thursday before driving to Malaga.


http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz3C3xjVcZb



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Edited by seeder, 01 September 2014 - 11:48 AM.

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#2    seeder

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:57 AM

For anyone who cant stream the articles vids:





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#3    Red Moon

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:14 PM

They shouldn't of removed the sick child from hospital. Why did they do that?

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#4    seeder

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:02 PM

View PostRed Howler, on 01 September 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

They shouldn't of removed the sick child from hospital. Why did they do that?

They believed they would get no further treatment for their son, or at least, the treatment that could possibly heal him

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#5    CatFromHell

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:04 PM

View PostRed Howler, on 01 September 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

They shouldn't of removed the sick child from hospital. Why did they do that?
I don't know, Its a difficult situation to understand and one you have no way of knowing how you would react until you faced the situation yourself, Something hopefully most people will never have to do.
Maybe it was wrong to take him out of hospital when he was so ill, but they were trying to do the best for their child as far as I can see and took him to Spain in the hope of getting treatment that wasn't available to him in the U.K.
Like, I said, None of us know how how we would react in that situation but they were desperate to try and save their Son,  and in their minds they were trying to do their best for their son.
I don't know how I'd react in the same situation but its likely I'd do the same if it meant curing my child.

Edited by SheWomanCatTypeThing, 01 September 2014 - 01:09 PM.


#6    Ryu

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:25 PM

If the parents feel their son is not getting the treatment he needs then I feel the parents are well within their rights to seek a place that can and will give him the treatment he needs.
Hospitals do not automatically own you or your family just because you enter their doors, you are not obligated to keep using their services if their services are not delivering what is needed.

This is probably one reason why the family fled, because of the increasingly militaristic mindset that these medical service providers have been adopting. I cannot fathom how a doctor can prosecute a family for wanting to save their child and I cannot fathom this god-complex that the medical industry has adopted in thinking that their word is the absolute in a matter.

I applaud the father who went to great measures to learn all he could and apparently discovered things the doctors did not know or refused to tell him about.


#7    seeder

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:39 PM

Update

The parents of Ashya King are being held in police custody after they refused to consent to their extradition to the UK at court appearance in Spain.

A High Court judge in Madrid ruled Brett and Naghemeh King will remain in custody for a maximum of 72 hours while he considers granting bail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-29009883

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#8    keithisco

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:54 PM

View PostRyu, on 01 September 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

If the parents feel their son is not getting the treatment he needs then I feel the parents are well within their rights to seek a place that can and will give him the treatment he needs.
Hospitals do not automatically own you or your family just because you enter their doors, you are not obligated to keep using their services if their services are not delivering what is needed.

This is probably one reason why the family fled, because of the increasingly militaristic mindset that these medical service providers have been adopting. I cannot fathom how a doctor can prosecute a family for wanting to save their child and I cannot fathom this god-complex that the medical industry has adopted in thinking that their word is the absolute in a matter.

I applaud the father who went to great measures to learn all he could and apparently discovered things the doctors did not know or refused to tell him about.

I have no idea what planet you are messaging from...what the heck do you mean by Militaristic Mindset of medical service providers?? A Doctor CANNOT, let me repeat that, CANNOT prosecute a family - no matter what!!!

The family were offered 2nd opinions but they refused, the family (being Medical Experts ***yes, sarcasm***) put their child at much greater risk. They bought Meds off of the internet?  SERIOUSLY?? That is guaranteed to be the real deal then isn't it? Jeez... the doctors knew all about Photon Beam therapy and stated to the parents that it would not offer any advantage to their son's condition.

They took their child out of hospital, bought internet drugs and food for treatment, went to Malaga (where they have been told the same thing about the therapy by the way - I live up the road from there.

In short , they endangered their son's life ( the same way that JW's and Mormons refuse Blood transfusions) so were neglecting the welfare of their child.

YES, they should be locked away at the moment, give their son a chance for curative therapy, get their heads out of their A** where they think they know best , and get back to a real life


#9    seeder

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:38 PM

Actually, they went to Spain, to SELL property they had, in order to be able to PAY for the proton beam therapy that IS available at the Czech Republic. And which was declined in the UK.    The boy has 4 months to live.  Just because they bought stuff online is totally immaterial, there are many bona fide medical supplies companies online you know..  and all he needed was drip food, vits, and syringes..

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#10    CatFromHell

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:31 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 01 September 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

YES, they should be locked away at the moment, give their son a chance for curative therapy, get their heads out of their A** where they think they know best , and get back to a real life
I don't think locking them away and denying them precious time with their Son whom they clearly love and care for will achieve much at all really, In fact I think its quite cruel.
Maybe they were a bit misguided, I doubt anyone would really be thinking clearly when put in their situation though.
I think they did what they did out of desperation and hope and love for their child, That's not so wrong really.

Edited by SheWomanCatTypeThing, 01 September 2014 - 06:33 PM.


#11    keithisco

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:50 PM

View Postseeder, on 01 September 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Actually, they went to Spain, to SELL property they had, in order to be able to PAY for the proton beam therapy that IS available at the Czech Republic. And which was declined in the UK. The boy has 4 months to live.  Just because they bought stuff online is totally immaterial, there are many bona fide medical supplies companies online you know..  and all he needed was drip food, vits, and syringes..
You don't have to go to Spain to sell your property.

In fact, given the amount of time it would take to sell any property here (1 - 2 years if you are lucky) then it is a totally spurious argument (if this is what they are saying). You always employ an Abogado or an Gestoria to handle such things.

Are they now saying that they took their boy out of Hospital in UK simply to drive him to Spain, without medical supervision, to sell a property (which would never have materialised) THEN to drive him to CZ for treatment at some unspecified time in the future?

The point about buying on-line is that you never know what you are getting - whether it is as stated, or is some bogus formula.

Sorry, but if the hospital had actually given him only 4 months to live and they said that they wanted to try a different therapy in CZ then they would have received every assistance from the UK Authorities because the NHS IS NOT run as a dictatorship. You can apply for NHS funding for this treatment abroad - and a decision is given within just a few days.

I see this as nothing more than a cheap attempt to get a sympathetic ear from the public to donate money to give him treatment (when, had they waited a few days this funding would have been approved by the NHS - if it was possible to have a beneficial outcome -  which would have covered ALL costs - not just the treatment , but travel and boarding arrangements as well).

I understand that their little trick has worked - with people donating money for just this purpose.


#12    CatFromHell

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:05 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 01 September 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

I see this as nothing more than a cheap attempt to get a sympathetic ear from the public to donate money to give him treatment (when, had they waited a few days this funding would have been approved by the NHS - if it was possible to have a beneficial outcome -  which would have covered ALL costs - not just the treatment , but travel and boarding arrangements as well).

I understand that their little trick has worked - with people donating money for just this purpose.
The NHS will sit back and watch people die based on their postcode. That is a fact and one that I'm all too aware of having had a family member denied life saving drugs that she would have had access to had she lived in another county, Thats county, Not country, And subsequently watching her die. I also witnessed the NHS end my grandmothers life by denying her food and water in hospital.
I'm guessing the parents felt they had no choice and wanted to do the best for their son.
I do understand your cynicism to a point but just think, How might you feel in the same situation?
The NHS does not always have the patients best interests at heart, No matter how much they will try and deny it.

Edited by SheWomanCatTypeThing, 01 September 2014 - 08:09 PM.


#13    keithisco

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:44 PM

View PostSheWomanCatTypeThing, on 01 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

The NHS will sit back and watch people die based on their postcode. That is a fact and one that I'm all too aware of having had a family member denied life saving drugs that she would have had access to had she lived in another county, Thats county, Not country, And subsequently watching her die. I also witnessed the NHS end my grandmothers life by denying her food and water in hospital.
I'm guessing the parents felt they had no choice and wanted to do the best for their son.
I do understand your cynicism to a point but just think, How might you feel in the same situation?
The NHS does not always have the patients best interests at heart, No matter how much they will try and deny it.
People ARE sent from the UK to the USA for Proton Beam treatment where it is considered beneficial. At some point however, you have to bring cost / benefit analysis into the equation. If Doctors (and don't forget the parents were offered 2nd opinions from Consultants of their choice, an offer which they rejected) determine there would be no therapeutic value to such a procedure, then given the huge costs involved it just becomes a palliative for the parents.

I am very sorry to hear of your losses, I was asked (with my mother at the same time) whether to maintain drug therapy for my father who had slipped into a persistent vegetative state. It was a a very hard decision for mum but I fully supported her when she simply said "I don't want him to suffer at all" the doctors accepted this with humility and the best care imaginable. He passed away 3 days later with dignity. We owe a huge debt to the NHS...


#14    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:50 PM

The NHS might not "always have the patient's best interests at heart", but stomping off to another country in order to undertake Faerie Therapies isn't going to help either.
Once again, no one comes out of this situation covered in glory.

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#15    CatFromHell

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:52 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 01 September 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

People ARE sent from the UK to the USA for Proton Beam treatment where it is considered beneficial. At some point however, you have to bring cost / benefit analysis into the equation. If Doctors (and don't forget the parents were offered 2nd opinions from Consultants of their choice, an offer which they rejected) determine there would be no therapeutic value to such a procedure, then given the huge costs involved it just becomes a palliative for the parents.

I am very sorry to hear of your losses, I was asked (with my mother at the same time) whether to maintain drug therapy for my father who had slipped into a persistent vegetative state. It was a a very hard decision for mum but I fully supported her when she simply said "I don't want him to suffer at all" the doctors accepted this with humility and the best care imaginable. He passed away 3 days later with dignity. We owe a huge debt to the NHS...
I don't think you're seeing the desperation with which these parents acted.
I'm glad your father was offered drug therapy, And you made the correct choice on his behalf.
At least the NHS offered you that based on your postcode.
I'm sure you owe them a great debt.
I can think of others who do not.





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