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Radicalized Ex-German Soldiers in Iraq

iraq isis is foreign fighter

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#1    questionmark

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:24 PM

Spiegel said:


Germany on Sunday presented the list of weapons it plans to send to the Kurds in northern Iraq. Some of them, though, may end up being used against former German soldiers. SPIEGEL has learned that 20 ex-Bundeswehr troops have joined jihadists in the region.

The German government over the weekend reached a decision on the weapons it plans to ship to the Kurds in northern Iraq to help them combat the advancing militants from the Islamic State (IS). But SPIEGEL has learned that it won't be easy to find a legal path to actually deliver those weapons. Furthermore, some of them may end up being used against former German soldiers.

According to security sources in Berlin, around 20 former members of Germany's Bundeswehr, as its military is known, have traveled to Syria and Iraq, apparently with the intention of joining Islamist extremist groups there. They join an estimated 400 other German jihadists who have already traveled to the region. Most of those, however, had no previous military experience, making the 20 trained Bundeswehr soldiers particularly valuable.

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#2    Jeremiah65

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:49 PM

I am not understanding the "westerners" getting involved in this.  British citizens, USA citizens and now...apparently Germans.

What am I missing?

From my point of view, the Jihadist and the Islamic state are against one of the things I hold most dear..."personal freedom".

I find it particularly odd that Germans would go there...maybe the Germans have been beaten down so much over the last 70-ish years they have forgotten themselves...I don't get it.

Oh well, I'm sure the weapons will get there somehow and as soon as ISIS/ISIL is beat down...the weapons will be used in some way no one is foreseeing... :td:

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#3    OverSword

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:39 PM

I think calling these people Germans, English, American, is probably not entirely genuine.  I'll wager most of them are the offspring of middle eastern immigrants, possibly not even born in the countries their nationality is being attributed to.  Let's see photo's of their faces.  Bet they are not caucasian but rather semitic.  It's a disingenuine as calling the Boston bombers Americans, which was done.

Edited by OverSword, 01 September 2014 - 05:41 PM.


#4    questionmark

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:45 PM

View PostOverSword, on 01 September 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

I think calling these people Germans, English, American, is probably not entirely genuine.  I'll wager most of them are the offspring of middle eastern immigrants, possibly not even born in the countries their nationality is being attributed to.  Let's see photo's of their faces.  Bet they are not caucasian but rather semitic.  It's a disingenuine as calling the Boston bombers Americans, which was done.

Well, this guy proves you wrong, his last name (Lau) is as German as they come:

Posted Image

He is in jail now. The guy begging for solidarity with this brain amputated is also pretty German (Falk).

Edited by questionmark, 01 September 2014 - 05:46 PM.

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#5    DeWitz

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:47 PM

Does anyone know the strength of ISIL/ISIS's army, as in sheer numbers? 20 Germans or a few hundred Americans or Brits does not surprise me, given the
attraction of fanaticism for some. Also, OverSword above makes a good point. Many of these "westerners" may in fact be first, second or even third generation people of ethnic groups usually associated with Islam.

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#6    Mr.United_Nations

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:26 PM

View PostDeWitz, on 01 September 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Does anyone know the strength of ISIL/ISIS's army, as in sheer numbers? 20 Germans or a few hundred Americans or Brits does not surprise me, given the
attraction of fanaticism for some. Also, OverSword above makes a good point. Many of these "westerners" may in fact be first, second or even third generation people of ethnic groups usually associated with Islam.
around 5,000 i guess


#7    keithisco

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:09 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 01 September 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

Well, this guy proves you wrong, his last name (Lau) is as German as they come:

Posted Image

He is in jail now. The guy begging for solidarity with this brain amputated is also pretty German (Falk).

Yes, but he did rename himself Abu Adam. :whistle:


#8    OverSword

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:47 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 01 September 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

Well, this guy proves you wrong, his last name (Lau) is as German as they come:

Posted Image

He is in jail now. The guy begging for solidarity with this brain amputated is also pretty German (Falk).
That's one, so it doesn't prove me wrong as I said most of them.  Do you for even 1/100th of a second believe this guy represents the majority of so called westerners jihading it up over there?

edit to add:  Look at that guy.  What a bloody D-bag.

Edited by OverSword, 01 September 2014 - 09:49 PM.


#9    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:52 PM

View PostYes_Man, on 01 September 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

around 5,000 i guess

Closer to 30,000-50,000 according to recent estimates. Though as of recent recruitment, could be as high as 100,000.
http://mashable.com/...-islamic-state/

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#10    libstaK

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:24 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 01 September 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

Closer to 30,000-50,000 according to recent estimates. Though as of recent recruitment, could be as high as 100,000.
http://mashable.com/...-islamic-state/
They say that for every protest marcher, there are 10 at home who support their cause - if we apply this to ISIL, we likely have 1,000,000 supporters of this horror.  That's 1 million people who are not concerned at beheadings and slaughters of others to achieve their aims.  That makes me shudder.

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#11    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:45 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 01 September 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

They say that for every protest marcher, there are 10 at home who support their cause - if we apply this to ISIL, we likely have 1,000,000 supporters of this horror.  That's 1 million people who are not concerned at beheadings and slaughters of others to achieve their aims.  That makes me shudder.

It's scary to think what may occur with this group in the future. With that many people, across the globe, all in different disciplines, how long before they're prepared for a massive chemical or biological attack? With over 2 billion in assets and with 3 mil a day in oil revenue, how long before they just buy a nuke and set it off where ever?

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#12    libstaK

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:00 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 01 September 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

It's scary to think what may occur with this group in the future. With that many people, across the globe, all in different disciplines, how long before they're prepared for a massive chemical or biological attack? With over 2 billion in assets and with 3 mil a day in oil revenue, how long before they just buy a nuke and set it off where ever?
I am not so concerned about the nuke - they really are not that easy to come by, although anything is possible. But have we EVER dealt with a Cult (and that is what this radicalist brand of Islam is) this size before?  I am not sure anyone in the world has.  Christian cults we are familiar with and mainstream christianity is quick to isolate them and their numbers are limited by the vocal opposition of fellow believers, more needs to be done within Islam in this same vein - they do not seem to have nearly as much understanding of the mechanics of cult behaviour as they should to get a grip on this problem.

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#13    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:04 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 01 September 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

I am not so concerned about the nuke - they really are not that easy to come by, although anything is possible. But have we EVER dealt with a Cult (and that is what this radicalist brand of Islam is) this size before?  I am not sure anyone in the world has.  Christian cults we are familiar with and mainstream christianity is quick to isolate them and their numbers are limited by the vocal opposition of fellow believers, more needs to be done within Islam in this same vein - they do not seem to have nearly as much understanding of the mechanics of cult behaviour as they should to get a grip on this problem.

Interesting times, to be sure.

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#14    toast

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:06 AM

View PostJeremiah65, on 01 September 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

I find it particularly odd that Germans would go there...maybe the Germans have been beaten down so much over the last
70-ish years they have forgotten themselves...I don't get it.
A number of approx 400 Germany based jihadists (and just the minority of this group do hold the German citizenship BTW)
who traveled to Syria and Iraq, out of a population of 82 millions isn`t a reason for to say that Germans would go there and
should not be taken as a basis to try to judge what kind of effects the last 70 years of history have and/or had on German
citizens in general.

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#15    RoofGardener

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:58 AM

Hmm... a nasty connundrum.

Kind-of veering off the point a bit, but I was intrigued by these two snippets from the original article.

Quote

....the German government over the weekend announced what weapons it intends to send. The list included 16,000 assault rifles, 40 machine guns and 240 anti-tank weapons along with 500 anti-tank rockets. Some 10,000 hand grenades and 8,000 pistols are to be sent....
Fair enough. But then we have...

Quote

......Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen presented the weapons list on Sunday evening in Berlin, saying the arms shipment should be enough to equip 4,000 Kurdish soldiers.

Soooo.... each Kurdish soldier gets FOUR assault rifles ?

Hmmmm.........

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