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Great Filter Theory explain Fermi's Paradox?


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#1    Midyin

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:36 PM

Here's an interesting article. What do you all think?

http://io9.com/have-...dium=socialflow


#2    Growl

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:02 AM

The paradox would be valid if the universe were local life and a random imprints.

If you like bhom says the universe is non-local and the space and time do not exist you could go in any place and at any time, because space and time do not exist.
Just make like you do with a radio station is tuned in on the wave function of a defined point in space and time it appears in that particular place.
Perhaps this is the way to travel used by the aliens.

Evidence about it? None of concrete, but an alternative interpretation.


#3    Hammerclaw

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:05 AM

We haven't been an extraplanetary species for much more than a century, and thus not noticed. To advanced civilizations, radio communication may be primitive and hopelessly backward, and our signals--to them--like the sound of crickets, chirping in the dark. We judge the universe on the basis of the human lifespan, but to creatures who have achieve virtual immortality, we are as ephemeral as grass. We need to learn not to be so high on ourselves.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#4    Harte

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:16 AM

Intelligence evolves for a reason, just like ears.

Things don't evolve beyond their needs, and no creature has evolved an ear beyond it's requirement for survival and thus procreation.

That said, I say that intelligence doesn't evolve to any "super" level.  The intelligence humans have is approximately the limit for intelligent life. That limit is set by the usual evolutionary parameters - success at survival and procreation.

Knowledge may expand, obviously.  But the intelligence that is discovering the knowledge is stuck.

That's the real "great filter."

Harte

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#5    StarMountainKid

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:00 AM

As Harte has said in the above post, human intelligence won't evolve by itself to any super level. However, an intelligent species may develop artificial aids to their natural intelligence. Also, they may develop AI that is superior to their own biological intelligence, and use this tool to develop advanced technologies.

Personally, I think the Great Filter is that there are few earth-like planets in the galaxy on which intelligent life has evolved. I think the evolution of primitive life to human beings is the result of a series of random events that are unlikely to be repeated on many other earth-like planets.

Change any accidental event in the chain of evilutionary incidents that have led to us, and we would not be here.

I also think the laws of physics can not be circumvented by any technology. There is an argument for von Neumann probes and self-replicating robotic spacecraft, but of what use would these technologies be for a civilization of intelligent, biological creatures bound to their own planetary neighborhood?

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#6    Midyin

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:05 AM

That's a good point too. I mean, if Faster than light travel is impossible, then even if there is intelligent life out there, what are the odds we'll ever see them?


#7    DONTEATUS

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:13 AM

Faster than Who`s Light? TH eOne we precieve,the one that`s not even in a spectrum we know about yet? Light ,Filters,gives me an Idea !
THe more we continue to evolve,the closer we may come to understanding the Universe in all its Glory !

Dont ever give up on mankind ! We will find a way to Travel into the space between our Imaginations. And Possible the points of Light beyond  ! To Infinity & Beyond ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#8    Hammerclaw

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:44 AM

View PostHarte, on 03 September 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

Intelligence evolves for a reason, just like ears.

Things don't evolve beyond their needs, and no creature has evolved an ear beyond it's requirement for survival and thus procreation.

That said, I say that intelligence doesn't evolve to any "super" level.  The intelligence humans have is approximately the limit for intelligent life. That limit is set by the usual evolutionary parameters - success at survival and procreation.

Knowledge may expand, obviously.  But the intelligence that is discovering the knowledge is stuck.

That's the real "great filter."

Harte
I have to disagree with you on that. The late Loren Eiseley remarked that human intelligence has evolved far beyond the needs of simple survival.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#9    Hammerclaw

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:52 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 03 September 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

As Harte has said in the above post, human intelligence won't evolve by itself to any super level. However, an intelligent species may develop artificial aids to their natural intelligence. Also, they may develop AI that is superior to their own biological intelligence, and use this tool to develop advanced technologies.

Personally, I think the Great Filter is that there are few earth-like planets in the galaxy on which intelligent life has evolved. I think the evolution of primitive life to human beings is the result of a series of random events that are unlikely to be repeated on many other earth-like planets.

Change any accidental event in the chain of evilutionary incidents that have led to us, and we would not be here.

I also think the laws of physics can not be circumvented by any technology. There is an argument for von Neumann probes and self-replicating robotic spacecraft, but of what use would these technologies be for a civilization of intelligent, biological creatures bound to their own planetary neighborhood?
There is no natural law that says that the level of intelligence of all creatures in the universe may not exceed that of human beings. That's just wishful thinking.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#10    taniwha

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:42 AM

View PostJohn Wesley Boyd, on 03 September 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

...intelligence has evolved far beyond the needs of simple survival.

But why it has evolved beyond the needs of simple survival is the paradox explained.  Dolphins and whales are intelligent beyond our years and show no evolutionary desire to colonise space and what other creatures war with each other?  To be at one with Earth has always been the key.  To abandon it is cosmic suicide and not at all intelligent.  I think you are right. We need to be humble.


#11    Harte

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:57 PM

View PostJohn Wesley Boyd, on 03 September 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

I have to disagree with you on that. The late Loren Eiseley remarked that human intelligence has evolved far beyond the needs of simple survival.
I disagree with this.

Intelligence evolved for survival and procreation.  It continued to evolve in response to changes such as the need to build shelter, which was a requirement for survival and procreation.

There is no difference between the IQ of H. Sapiens and H. Sapiens Sapiens.  Simple consideration of the intricacies of creating decent stone points and tools shows this to be the case.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#12    Hammerclaw

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:17 PM

View Posttaniwha, on 03 September 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

But why it has evolved beyond the needs of simple survival is the paradox explained.  Dolphins and whales are intelligent beyond our years and show no evolutionary desire to colonise space and what other creatures war with each other?  To be at one with Earth has always been the key.  To abandon it is cosmic suicide and not at all intelligent.  I think you are right. We need to be humble.
We are a product of a planetary biome. We are the only species the Earth has evolved that can engineer itself offplanet. It is the nature of life to spred and colonize. The human body is the vehicle for that colonization. It has been estimated that 50 million individual bacteria live on the average square centimeter of human skin. The microorganisms that inhabit the body of a healthy human are known as the normal microbial fauna. they come two types, 1. The permanent residents and 2. transients which can include a multitude of parasites that can join the community and make our bodies their home. While the numbers appear staggering, all that live on the outer surface would fit in a small pea. Those that live on the inside of the human body, on the other hand, would fill a vessel of about 300 milliliters--about the size of a small coffee cup. At least 200 species comprise this community, and wherever we travel and settle in the cosmos we take this representative population of earth organisms with us. Some may be fruitful and multiply and recreate a facimile of the parent biome, thus giving it the continuance which all life seeks.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd, 03 September 2014 - 04:31 PM.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#13    Hammerclaw

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:28 PM

View PostHarte, on 03 September 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

I disagree with this.

Intelligence evolved for survival and procreation.  It continued to evolve in response to changes such as the need to build shelter, which was a requirement for survival and procreation.

There is no difference between the IQ of H. Sapiens and H. Sapiens Sapiens.  Simple consideration of the intricacies of creating decent stone points and tools shows this to be the case.

Harte
That's ego and hubris. "What a piece of work is a man. How noble in reason. How infinite in Faculty! In form, in moving how express and admirable. In action, how like an angel, in aprehension how like a God! The beauty of the world! The paragon of animals!" There is no survival imperative beyond the basic needs of survival, and every other species on the planet done quite well without superfluous intelligence to create art music, science, sophisticated architecture, excetera. Human intelligence is quite the exception, not the rule.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#14    Harte

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:09 PM

View PostJohn Wesley Boyd, on 03 September 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

That's ego and hubris. "What a piece of work is a man. How noble in reason. How infinite in Faculty! In form, in moving how express and admirable. In action, how like an angel, in aprehension how like a God! The beauty of the world! The paragon of animals!"
I would agree that the above is hubris.

But that's not what I said, so i don't know whay you attribute it to me.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#15    Hammerclaw

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:15 PM

View PostHarte, on 03 September 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

I would agree that the above is hubris.

But that's not what I said, so i don't know whay you attribute it to me.

Harte
Sorry my mind was on another post and miskeyed. Human intelligence has evolved far beyond the dictates of simple survival. As to why, I can only speculate. Any disagreement with your opinion on the subject is with all respect.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd, 03 September 2014 - 05:18 PM.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),




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