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US Marine Kills Wounded Prisoner


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124 replies to this topic

#1    Dowdy

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 07:27 AM

QUOTE
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- The U.S. military said Tuesday it is investigating the videotaped fatal shooting of a wounded man by a U.S. Marine in a mosque in Fallujah. Iraqis condemned the act as "cowardice" and "something forbidden in Islam."

Investigators will determine whether the Marine acted in self-defense against what a spokesman described as an "enemy combatant."


read story here



anyone see the irony in the first statement


Although, i have seen the clip. It wasn't self defense -  the prisoner didn't make any sudden movement, he just shot him

THE PAOMNNEHAL PWEOR OF THE HMUAN MNID Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg. Can you? ;)

#2    vimjams

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 09:24 AM

The thing that surprises me is (Why this one?) There have been a number of incidents whereby US soldiers have killed wounded 'enemy'.
I recently saw newsreel of US marines taking turns to fire at some poor man laying wounded and in obvious pain some  yards from the troops. One can clearly see the missed shots hitting the ground near the man...Then a cheer goes up when he is eventually struck and lies lifeless. Next footage is of the young soldier who's bullet hit. "It was a good feeling" he says smiling "awesome...Let's do it again"

I can imagine what would be said if that were a US soldier lying wounded and being shot..."MURDER"

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#3    Cpt.InsaneO

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 09:37 AM

yes i see the irony.
  
  If you have not been in a war or at least a fight were your life is in serious danger.
  don't judge the actions of others and stereo type a large group for the actions of some.
  when people are killing each other, its hard to play by the rules and not get carried away.  
  I have not seen this video. but there is often more to it.

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#4    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 09:42 AM

QUOTE
Iraqis condemned the act as "cowardice" and "something forbidden in Islam."


Ummm...yeah sure...

(Meanwhile in another part of Iraq, a bound female humanatarian aid worker is shot to death...by iraqis)

blink.gif  rolleyes.gif

Yep, people die in war, people kill in war...it is a horrible thing. Having served in the Army and seen it first hand I can tell you that war is something that should be avoided at all costs as it has a tendancy to bring out the nasty side of everyone involved.

During combat people have to make life and death decisions that really shouldn't be making those decisions. The iraqi insurgents aren't exactly wearing uniforms and waving flags so it is hard to tell who is who. To be painfully blunt, I do not know if I would want to see a suspected insurgent get back up and run back to re-arm and shoot at my buddies. It is a tough call, and seeing a video clip hardly gives anyone here the understanding to know the entire situation.

Were they wrong to shoot an unarmed man? probably. The job of the Army is to go kill people, that is the bottom line. In every single war many people have died that did not deserve to die, that is one of the reasons why I was so against this war. It was a huge can of worms that so few people even understand, but yet seem to be so willing to fall back on...War is not pretty like you see in the movies, it is confusing and horrible, and you have to live the rest of your life knowing you killed people. It isn't good for anyone involved. Not the civilian caught in the middle, or the soldiers on either side...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#5    lego jedi

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 09:59 AM

Man FB that is so prfound,
What you have just said i can completely agreee with.
I had a 'discution' yesterday with people who would not understand my point, i think i will direct them to your post as you have summed it up well.
I dont like wars or killing, i disagree with the war in iraq, but unfortunatly the war being fought over there is a dirty one where the combatants are dressed in regular clothes, and attack without warning and when backs are turned.
We shouldnt be there, no. people have been sent, and wether you agree with the war or not. Just be glad its not you .

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#6    Cpt.InsaneO

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 10:55 AM

well said  Lego and Fluffy.

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#7    aquatus1

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 05:29 PM

Ultimately, as far as the trial goes, it will all come down to "Was the wounded man faking or not?"

If he was not actively surrendering (as many wounded instinctively do), then, as one soldier cried out, he might well have been faking death, and whichever way you wish to slice it, that would give the soldier a reason to shoot.  Wether it is right or wrong or moral or immoral is irrelevent; by faking death, the soldier becomes an unknown danger, and the Army trains its soldier to deal with danger in a very direct manner.

If the wounded soldier was trying to surrender, however, that would indeed make this a violation of the rules of combat.


#8    twpdyp

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 05:34 PM

I agree with fluffy and lego on everything except that we should not be there. Unless you were standing in that soldiers shoes who are we to judge.

As we go through this life reaching, striving, and straining for life's brass ring, has any of us ever stopped to wonder just who is running the Merry-Go-Round?
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#9    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 05:44 PM

thing is vinjams its horrible , terrible howevere the only the day before a friend of the soldier in question was blown to pieces by an Iraqi pretending to be dead.

What wouldyou do?

Im sure as hell not gonna condemn this guy.

AN i like the cheek of the comment that this is not allowed in islam, but thats right if it were the other way around say a bound blindfolded starved western women its ok to do what you will because shes an infidel like the rest of us and not worthy of their piss if we were on fire.



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#10    twpdyp

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 05:56 PM

QUOTE
wunarmdscissor Posted Today, 12:44 PM
  thing is vinjams its horrible , terrible howevere the only the day before a friend of the soldier in question was blown to pieces by an Iraqi pretending to be dead.

What wouldyou do?

Im sure as hell not gonna condemn this guy.

AN i like the cheek of the comment that this is not allowed in islam, but thats right if it were the other way around say a bound blindfolded starved western women its ok to do what you will because shes an infidel like the rest of us and not worthy of their piss if we were on fire.

Bravo, well said. wunarmdscissor I know we have been on opposite sides of other issues but this time I am fully behind everything you said.


As we go through this life reaching, striving, and straining for life's brass ring, has any of us ever stopped to wonder just who is running the Merry-Go-Round?
You must play the hand that life deals you, if you dealt the hand to yourself you must play that hand silently .

#11    zephyr

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 06:09 PM

There must be a prize up in Iraq for whoever can commit the ugliest act!


#12    Hein

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 06:45 PM

The primary point remains this: Since this was an illegal invasion in the first place, the responsibility for what happened afterwards lies squarely on the shoulders of the American invaders. And the illusion that they are "liberators" is only that: an illusion. They are invaders killing people in their own country. And the Iraqis know this. The article below is a good summary of the situation:

"First, and most important, the people of Fallujah hate the Americans and support the guerrillas (even if they may have complaints about much of what they do). This means that as soon as the people return, so will the resistance, hidden from US view because virtually all the guerrillas are residents of Fallujah with supporters in the community. They will not be turned over to the US or to Iraqi police, and they will therefore begin to mount attacks on whoever is left to guard the US-installed local government."
http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FK20Ak01.html


#13    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 06:48 PM

so hein , was Iraq in breach of UN resolutions?

Just a yes or no ....

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#14    OlDrippy34

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 07:07 PM

I heard that the Marine in this video had a guy in his unit killed like the day before by a wounded enemy who pretended to be dead and blew him up with a grenade.  I've never served in the army or any situation like that, but I imagine you get pretty close with the people in your unit, so I imagine that would piss them off and make them not trust these "wounded" enemies.  But tha's just what I read somewhere, I don't remember where.


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#15    Hein

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 07:08 PM

QUOTE(wunarmdscissor @ Nov 19 2004, 07:48 PM)
so hein , was Iraq in breach of UN resolutions?

Just a yes or no ....

View Post



Israel has been in breach of countless UN resolutions for decades. They DO have nuclear weapons and God only knows what else. Do you think America should invade Israel, engage in street battles in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, shoot unarmed, dying Israelis who resisted this occupation, and replace their government with one democratically appointed by the Americans?

A simple yes or no would suffice.





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