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Is Religion A Placebo?


Davros of Skaro

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True path to spiritual journey, or a cork against psychotic overflow?

What are your thoughts

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it's the Opium of the Masses.

I presume you're not wanting the answer that there might be any validity to it.

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True path to spiritual journey, or a cork against psychotic overflow?

What are your thoughts

Psychotic overflow? What is that, exactly?
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True path to spiritual journey, or a cork against psychotic overflow?

What are your thoughts

I think personal faith is a great path to spiritual journey. But I agree, with religion, I do think it's the cork against psychotic overflow.
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Guest Br Cornelius

Cork.

I think all the claimed personal benefits made for religions can be achieved, but they are all attributable to placebo type qualities. Why ? because belief in any religion brings exactly the same benefits. I think the brave and honest thing to do is see past the placebo, the benefits can be achieved just by realising they are a product of the mind.

Br Cornelius

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To those in countries where you are being killed for converting to different beliefs - that feeling you get as your head is literally separated from your shoulders; it's just placebo.

Seriously, I get the point in the question, and in many situations it could be argued thus. But if it's only a placebo then it doesn't answer for those who die for their placebo. Placebo's make life better, not end it before it begins.

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People die for their placebos all the time when they believe in them an as a result don't seek out scientific medical treatment.

This is one and only one of the skeptical questions that can be asked about beliefs and benefits claimed to be from them.

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Aww, martyrs didn't get their proper scientific medical treatment :cry:

Edited by Paranoid Android
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Aww, martyrs didn't get their proper scientific medical treatment :cry:

In your eagerness to mock me I see you ignored the point, or maybe just don't get it.
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Cork.

I think all the claimed personal benefits made for religions can be achieved, but they are all attributable to placebo type qualities. Why ? because belief in any religion brings exactly the same benefits. I think the brave and honest thing to do is see past the placebo, the benefits can be achieved just by realising they are a product of the mind.

Br Cornelius

Religious belief is not a placebo, but maybe the claim that prayer can cure you or something like that is. The thing is administration of a placebo can be a valid medical treatment and really work, and statistical proof of that has been produced over and over. The thing is to maintain the belief in the efficacy -- all praise the Lord High Sugar Pill.
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PA

To those in countries where you are being killed for converting to different beliefs - that feeling you get as your head is literally separated from your shoulders; it's just placebo.

Seriously, I get the point in the question, and in many situations it could be argued thus. But if it's only a placebo then it doesn't answer for those who die for their placebo. Placebo's make life better, not end it before it begins.

Darn it. We keep running into that pesky Book you admire so much. I recall reading in it that our temporal leaders are appointed by God, and that therefore, we should obey them. If obedience to them is God's will, and somebody disobeys them, then that's missing the mark, or sin. The wages of sin are death. I think that's in there somewhere, too.

Sounds to me like God's work is being done here.

OP

Psychosis is rare. Religious adherence is common. So, the numbers don't work out. Religion must offer more than, or maybe be fundamentally different from, merely a management strategy for serious illness.

(I have no idea what you mean by an illness overflowing, or how a cork would help. Maybe you meant something other than psychosis in the first place?)

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True path to spiritual journey, or a cork against psychotic overflow?

What are your thoughts

Neither. It's a system of social control. That is all. It leverages personal faith into being a 'common belief' for the purpose of allowing a few claiming authority to exert control over the many who don't.

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Guest Br Cornelius

Aww, martyrs didn't get their proper scientific medical treatment :cry:

Seems to me martyr's were a bit stupid, not the sort of people to model ourselves on at all.

Br Cornelius

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Guest Br Cornelius

Religious belief is not a placebo, but maybe the claim that prayer can cure you or something like that is. The thing is administration of a placebo can be a valid medical treatment and really work, and statistical proof of that has been produced over and over. The thing is to maintain the belief in the efficacy -- all praise the Lord High Sugar Pill.

Religion brings psychological benefits which can be measured, these are the placebo qualities I was referencing.

Br Cornelius

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Guest Br Cornelius

Neither. It's a system of social control. That is all. It leverages personal faith into being a 'common belief' for the purpose of allowing a few claiming authority to exert control over the many who don't.

That about sums it up really.

There are powerful needs to belong to the in crowd and religion satisfies that need whilst also allowing social control.

Br Cornelius

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That about sums it up really.

There are powerful needs to belong to the in crowd and religion satisfies that need whilst also allowing social control.

Br Cornelius

I find this very interesting. (Although, I do not see all the time, all over) I do see this various areas. There are some areas, where it's a more relaxed area, and it's almost a family like comforting environment. In others, yeah, I see this. (I am reminded of that particular family, where the wife and mother kept calling me, demanding me to call her, and had ideas about how I and my family should live. And I didn't even go to church, much less her's)

Not everyone have those needs to belong in a crowd, and thus succumbs to the will of their religious institution( and of course, that depends on the institution) some prefer to be spiritually separate from that and enjoy their spirituality alone. Yeah, ok, I'm talking about myself mostly here. And it more than likely cause I am an introvert too. *shrugs* I have read various articles here and there how some are breaking free from their churches and such to have more control of their lives, because they do feel dictated to. Then again, for someone who hasn't really gone to church or the like her whole life, ...........what would I know. *looks sheepish*

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Religion is for the masses and spirituality is for the individual. Both have it's pro's and con's. With religion it's mind slavery, with spirituality it's possibly losing your mind. If it makes you a better person then I don't see much of a problem, just choose your poison wisely. Some will leave a bitter taste and others will devour the soul.

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To those in countries where you are being killed for converting to different beliefs - that feeling you get as your head is literally separated from your shoulders; it's just placebo.

Seriously, I get the point in the question, and in many situations it could be argued thus. But if it's only a placebo then it doesn't answer for those who die for their placebo. Placebo's make life better, not end it before it begins.

A placebo can go both ways. If you strongly believe that a curse or black magic is real, and someone who practices such things curses you, it has been documented that you can suffer physical, even life threatening conditions that are all in your head. The brain is powerful, if it believes something absolutely it will bring about that thing. It is, quite literally, all in your head.

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Religion is for the masses and spirituality is for the individual. Both have it's pro's and con's.

I can agree with that.
With religion it's mind slavery, with spirituality it's possibly losing your mind.
Losing my mind. Yup, done that! Check.
If it makes you a better person then I don't see much of a problem, just choose your poison wisely. Some will leave a bitter taste and others will devour the soul.

Well, I don't get your last sentence. I don't see it as poison, considering it helps me. *shrugs*
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Religion can work for some people and others it's just a mind poison. Think of the statement as a word of caution. Give the wrong person the wrong religion then they can justify any atrocity. Give that same person the right religion and they can become a new person. It's all in the beliefs and what they mean to the person. I've seen good people become complete prick because of Christianity and I've know desperate people overcome all odds because of it as well. A person who has no natural inclination to worship might find meditation better. It's all in the individual.

Edited by XenoFish
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Good.gif

Think of the conviction it take to kill someone over a difference of faith. Absolute psychopathic. All because of belief. It's a sick, sad world we live in.

Yeah, I don't get that. Why, just why? I don't get getting your panties in a bunch over someone else's faith. So, I am disgusted by killing for not being the same faith as the killer. Yes, it's psychopathic, and I do see a lot of it because of people's belief. I also do see a lot of good, because of someone's belief. I also see a lot of hostility from non-believers too. It's the individual, or the group,if you will. Despite the fact I have had bad experiences from prosetylizers, I think that the fact I never went to church growing up, I probably do not know the ups and downs of church life. So, I am probably not a good point of view or organized religion. But of spirituality, it is not all bad, well to me anyways. :)
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Either God exists or He does not. It is one or the other, it cannot be both.

If the latter, than religion is something created by man to explain away existence, to control other people, etcetera.

If the former, and God wants to know His creation (i.e. humanity) at a personal level, than what may be known about God comes from Him alone. Whatever He reveals to His creation is then not a "placebo" but apparently important information to God and for man.

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Yoga, along with exercise, are also placebos. Whatever floats your boat as long as you're doing no harm.

Before anyone links all of the benefits attributed to either of the above...I'm already well aware. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. :su

Edited by Michelle
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In your eagerness to mock me I see you ignored the point, or maybe just don't get it.

I wasn't mocking you, Frank. I was mocking your argument. A very big difference. And perhaps I could have gotten my point across better simply by stating it, mocking is often counter-productive, so on that note, I apologise.

Though in a later post you do state that religion is not a placebo, so perhaps I misunderstood. Who are dying for their placebos?

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