Jesus not from the line of David

[SpiritWriter]

I haven't read about this for a while but there is something that always struck me about the genealogy of Jesus. Over and over we hear that he is a descendant of King David and this is a major deal because it has been prophesied about etc.. throughout scripture. But the bible shows us how Joseph is a descendant of King David, not how Jesus is related to him at all. According to scripture Jesus' lineage comes from his mother Mary and The Holy Spirit... This is always how I read it. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

This topic came up today is why I'm mentioning it. I always thought it was rather insightful.

[karmakazi]

This topic came up before, if I remember correctly someone mentioned that Jesus would have been considered a descendant of David because Joseph claimed him as his own, not necessarily by blood.....but I'm just going on memory of what someone else said on UM months ago !

[White Crane Feather]

This topic came up before, if I remember correctly someone mentioned that Jesus would have been considered a descendant of David because Joseph claimed him as his own, not necessarily by blood.....but I'm just going on memory of what someone else said on UM months ago !

Yes thta was the answer I got when ran across the genealogical record. But there were some other good answers to.

Not being a Christian ( at least not in the religous sense) I don't find the virgin birth very credible. I think it much more likely that Jesus was actually Joseph's son but Mary and Joseph just had a little to much fun before mariage. It would not be the first time and it's not going to be the last. Teens will we be teens and not a strick religion on this earth has been able to thwart nature.

[Leonardo]

I haven't read about this for a while but there is something that always struck me about the genealogy of Jesus. Over and over we hear that he is a descendant of King David and this is a major deal because it has been prophesied about etc.. throughout scripture. But the bible shows us how Joseph is a descendant of King David, not how Jesus is related to him at all. According to scripture Jesus' lineage comes from his mother Mary and The Holy Spirit... This is always how I read it. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

This topic came up today is why I'm mentioning it. I always thought it was rather insightful.

It is my understanding that the apparent contradiction is avoided because both Jesus and David were direct descendants of God - David through the line of Adam and Jesus directly. Thus Jesus is "of the line of David" even if he wasn't David's ancestor.

[SpiritWriter]

Yes thta was the answer I got when ran across the genealogical record. But there were some other good answers to.

Not being a Christian ( at least not in the religous sense) I don't find the virgin birth very credible. I think it much more likely that Jesus was actually Joseph's son but Mary and Joseph just had a little to much fun before mariage. It would not be the first time and it's not going to be the last. Teens will we be teens and not a strick religion on this earth has been able to thwart nature.

Oh come on White Crane Feather! Where's your sense of spirit impregnation?

[SpiritWriter]

It is my understanding that the apparent contradiction is avoided because both Jesus and David were direct descendants of God - David through the line of Adam and Jesus directly. Thus Jesus is "of the line of David" even if he wasn't David's ancestor.

Ok I get it, so we dont all come from Adam or God according to scripture. I guess that explains a lot but I don't buy it. It's still cool that Joseph was related to David... pretty close since he treated him like his own. Says a lot for marriage/spirit/non blood relationships.

[Leonardo]

Ok I get it, so we dont all come from Adam or God according to scripture.

Not necessarily. According to both the Jewish and Christian versions of the scripture, there is a direct line of descent from God, through Adam to Joseph ('father' of Jesus). However, according to those same scriptures, at least some of the children on Adam and Eve 'married off' into people who were not descended from Adam. While this is a bit confusing, and probably contradictory to 'accepted' theological (traditionally Christian) wisdom that Adam and Eve were the 'parents' of humanity, it seems that wasn't what the Hebrew scriptures intended to convey, but only that those two were the 'parents' of the tribes of Israel.

So, we aren't all "descended from Adam" - at least, that is according to older interpretations of the scriptures. It's quite possible the original Hebrew scriptures intended to set up Adam and Eve and their descendents as 'progeny descended from the divine' while not excluding the concept of 'earth-born people', which was similar to how many other ancient cultures 'celebrated' their apparent superiority over other cultures.

[Hawkins]

I haven't read about this for a while but there is something that always struck me about the genealogy of Jesus. Over and over we hear that he is a descendant of King David and this is a major deal because it has been prophesied about etc.. throughout scripture. But the bible shows us how Joseph is a descendant of King David, not how Jesus is related to him at all. According to scripture Jesus' lineage comes from his mother Mary and The Holy Spirit... This is always how I read it. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

This topic came up today is why I'm mentioning it. I always thought it was rather insightful.

It is about a multi-fold message. To the Jews virgin birth never happens to Mary. They believe that Jesus is the true son of Joseph. In this sense, Jesus is from David, that is, from the Jews' perspective. The Bible provide another account of genealogy, it is related to Mary's bloodline. Mary is a descendant of David, so is Jesus. Moreover, some Jews also believe that their Messiah comes as a virgin birth, at the same time He's a descendant of David as a new ruling king. This says that already accepted that their Messiah is not a son of His earthly father yet can still be a descendant of David.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Hawkins

[White Crane Feather]

Oh come on White Crane Feather! Where's your sense of spirit impregnation?

Well....... say God did it or be stoned to death? Hmmmm I don't know it seems like a tough choice.

Edited December 12, 2014 by White Crane Feather

[SpiritWriter]

Well....... say God did it or be stoned to death? Hmmmm I don't know it seems like a tough choice.

Nawww, nothing so serious as all that. Just nice to use your imagination and believe that God can do what man says is impossible.

[White Unicorn]

I haven't read about this for a while but there is something that always struck me about the genealogy of Jesus. Over and over we hear that he is a descendant of King David and this is a major deal because it has been prophesied about etc.. throughout scripture. But the bible shows us how Joseph is a descendant of King David, not how Jesus is related to him at all. According to scripture Jesus' lineage comes from his mother Mary and The Holy Spirit... This is always how I read it. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

This topic came up today is why I'm mentioning it. I always thought it was rather insightful.

Basically I think Jesus would have been of Ruth which included an Amorite lineage of the "bad guy" angel children before the flood, and the "purists" at the time did not accept him or his teachings. Some traditions say two Messiahs come, one of David "King"and one of Joseph "Priest" much like revelations says about two witnesses. A priest is killed and raised by the Lion of Judah who is the king. The king is more to lead men as one nation and the priest teaches the workings of the spirit. John the Baptist was the herald for Jesus coming and Elijah is supposed to herald for the end time Messiah. Much like angels, Michaelis the Heavenly Priest and Gabriel is the Judge the "king". Religions get too endoctrined to specifics of their own beliefs and makings. They fail to keep the philosophy of Spirit simple!

I think the important thing about Jesus is the Holy Spirit descending into him! He was prepared for his mission as were others to their missions in bringing the revelations of the Spirit of God. Religions lose too much of the spirit as the years go on obviously. If you look throughout religious histories you find the spirit manifests in different ages and ways as man is willing and able to accept it.

The gospel Jesus taught was about preparing others for the spiritual life whether embodied or not. It seems his messages became less important than the method of miracles his followers used to convince people of the times that he was God and to follow his teachings. He came with a new method than Moses, the children grew up differently. Jews were trying to follow the law letter by letter and some even lost the spirit in their religion. The law is good but empty without the spirit of life and compassion, the gentiles were left out as "heirs". Jesus brought a new arrival of a spirit of God's will to ALL who seek him with a sincere passion toward the creator. Like other prophets the spirit worked through...Enoch, Noah, Moses etc the Holy Spirit comes to direct others toward the path of life if they are willing to see it. We are meant to live in peace as one, harmony of spirit each with our own gifts, just as the church is supposed to be the body of Jesus. The body functions as ONE.

Holy Spirit is truth and the life not geneology. It is of some importance because it directly influences the acceptance of rejection of spirit in many cases. I believe the importance of pure lineage is a fallacy since after all this time, we are all mutts. Jesus gave all the mutts the message of hope in the spirit which is more merciful then the old testament appearances of God's ways revealed and being very angry with the fallen men and angels. He gave a strict law and punishment to teach them because that's all they could understand.

Jesus' message was that with true repentance of our evil inclinations from living as seperated beings in matter, we still can overcome with the Holy Spirit that will unite us, no matter what our lineage or prior transgressions of spirit. Covenants were contracts that even the earnest could not keep 100% of the time, not even the old Noahidic law, so it was really a hopelessness to God's creatures for life in spirit. So a new covenent was made with compassion and love from the Holy Spirit to ALL who become filled with it. It is the true gift of life, that is always there if we learn to see it.

I will give you a few interesting links about some lineage theories and one about how we are all mutts http://ldolphin.org/2adams.html http://jewsandjoes.c...miah-33-22.html

Edited December 13, 2014 by White Unicorn

[Jor-el]

I haven't read about this for a while but there is something that always struck me about the genealogy of Jesus. Over and over we hear that he is a descendant of King David and this is a major deal because it has been prophesied about etc.. throughout scripture. But the bible shows us how Joseph is a descendant of King David, not how Jesus is related to him at all. According to scripture Jesus' lineage comes from his mother Mary and The Holy Spirit... This is always how I read it. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

This topic came up today is why I'm mentioning it. I always thought it was rather insightful.

Both Mary and Joseph belonged to the tribe of Judah, which is the tribe of Davidic descent.

As can be seen by the image both genealogies evident in the bible are of Jesus but they are different, what is interesting is that one of the kings in the list has a curse upon him. King Jeconiah has this said about him.

Jeremiah 22:24-30

²⁴ “As surely as I live,” declares the Lord, “even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. ²⁵ I will deliver you into the hands of those who want to kill you, those you fear—Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and the Babylonians. ²⁶ I will hurl you and the mother who gave you birth into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. ²⁷ You will never come back to the land you long to return to.”

²⁸ Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot,

an object no one wants?

Why will he and his children be hurled out,

cast into a land they do not know?

²⁹ O land, land, land,

hear the word of the Lord!

³⁰ This is what the Lord says:

“Record this man as if childless,

a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,

for none of his offspring will prosper,

none will sit on the throne of David

or rule anymore in Judah.

What this means is that it is not enough to be a descendent of David, you must also not be of the line of Solomon through Jeconiah. Any Messiah figure must conform to this stricture. If Jesus had been born from a merely physical union between Joseph and Mary, he would not have been able to legitimately claim the throne nor ever claim to be the long awaited Jewish Messiah.

Since both parents are descendants of David along different lines of the Family, Jesus would have been able to claim descent through Nathan, but this particular line of the family would be ineligible for the throne since it is not the principle line of descent. By combining both the blood of Mary with the adoption by Joseph, he could legitimately claim the heritage of both sides of the family without being hobbled by the curse.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Jor-el

[Davros of Skaro]

Coptic Christians in Egypt believed that the Christ spirit entered directly from God into the plain mortal Man that was Baptised by John in the Jordan River.It fits with the first Gospel belived to be written which is Mark.

[Rafterman]

Jesus Snow

[Ben Masada]

This topic came up before, if I remember correctly someone mentioned that Jesus would have been considered a descendant of David because Joseph claimed him as his own, not necessarily by blood.....but I'm just going on memory of what someone else said on UM months ago !

What I have is that Jesus was from the lineage of David only according to the gospel of Paul if you read II Tim. 2:8. The only way Jesus could be of the lineage of David is if he was a biological son of Joseph's whom the NT describes as being Jesus' father only by adoption. That's not enough. According to Judaism, an adopted child is entitled to inherit every thing but one, the tribal affiliation of the Father. Therefore, thanks to the NT, Jesus was not from the Tribe of Judah which exonerates him from being the Messiah.

[GlitterRose]

I'm not sure why it's even an issue, since it's all hypothetical. And as usual, I don't believe any of it. But that said...if David was descended from a line that is considered divine because it stems from YHVH (as in that god particularly created that line of people and made a covenant with them)...and Jesus is supposed to be the son of YHVH, then the point would be moot.

Edited February 14, 2015 by ChaosRose

[regeneratia]

I haven't read about this for a while but there is something that always struck me about the genealogy of Jesus. Over and over we hear that he is a descendant of King David and this is a major deal because it has been prophesied about etc.. throughout scripture. But the bible shows us how Joseph is a descendant of King David, not how Jesus is related to him at all. According to scripture Jesus' lineage comes from his mother Mary and The Holy Spirit... This is always how I read it. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

This topic came up today is why I'm mentioning it. I always thought it was rather insightful.

Accoriding to THE BIBLE FRAUD, the betrothal period that Joseph and Mary entered into as when they tried to concieve, as was the general practice at that time. For this reason, I think could see how Jesus, if he is just one person, was indeed from the line of David. Conception happened during betrothal. The practice protected the line because they didn't want the line to die out, didn't want the man to marry an infertile female, so making sure the woman was fertile was of utmost importance. Betrothal was when the union was "consumated" and marriage either followed pregnancy or birth.

During Beltane, people were able to "merge" with whoever they wanted, married or not. The child that came from unions during Beltane were considered particularly blessed and spiritual in nature. I wonder if this was a kickback from ancient practices where the woman had to PROVE fertility prior to marriage.

I don't believe in the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Mother, as in Father, Mother, and Child, as it was until sealed out of general spiritual concepts at the bloody (not a explicative but a descriptiuon of what happened then) Nicean Council. They were just trying to eliminate the importance o f woman from so much of spirituality and history.

Edited February 14, 2015 by regeneratia

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

So you are discussing if a person that we don't know for sure existed, is related to another person that we don't know for sure existed ?

Just checking to be sure.

[Ben Masada]

I'm not sure why it's even an issue, since it's all hypothetical. And as usual, I don't believe any of it. But that said...if David was descended from a line that is considered divine because it stems from YHVH (as in that god particularly created that line of people and made a covenant with them)...and Jesus is supposed to be the son of YHVH, then the point would be moot.

The line of David was only another way to say, "From the Tribe of Judah" and there is nothing divine about it. Only God is Divine. And there is nothing hypothetical either. This that you do not believe is not the issue here. We all are free to choose to believe or not.

Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. He was considered to be son of God but only as part of the People which is said in Exodus 4:22,23 to be the son of God. "Israel is my son." But, on an individual basis, Jesus was not the son of God. This is akin to the Greek concept of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman and Judaism does not adopt such a pagan concept.

[Magnanimus]

So you are discussing if a person that we don't know for sure existed, is related to another person that we don't know for sure existed ?

Just checking to be sure.

Steven Hawking's biopic is up for five Academy Awards, but it didn't make a seventh of what any of the three Marvel movies that came out this year made.

We inherently want stories that stand taller than reality and by debating the finer, conceivable points, we get a handle on those stories that ties the fantastic back to our own understanding and our own lives.

[Magnanimus]

... Jesus was not the son of God. This is akin to the Greek concept of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman and Judaism does not adopt such a pagan concept.

...Except for that one time that a bunch of them totally did, and it went on to become the single largest and most influential religion in human history.

[Ben Masada]

...Except for that one time that a bunch of them totally did, and it went on to become the single largest and most influential religion in human history.

Through Paul. (Acts 9:20; II Tim. 2:8) Jesus himself never had any thing to do with Christianity and he never even dreamed that it would ever rise which happened at the hands of Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. (Acts 11:26)