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Are we sinners?


ambelamba

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Calling ourselves sinners is like calling someone a glutton for eating three meals a day.

Got it? :D

Yeah, I know. The Christian notion of sinner comes from the concept of Original Sin, but somehow it transformed into the judgmental attitude on our behaviors in general.

Edited by ambelamba
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Don't believe in original sin.

Edited by Border Collie
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Original Sin was originally a concept to explain that humanity fell short of the ideal of God, but it was the Church, of course, that turned it into saying that "if you do this, or that, or pretty much anything really, then you are a Sinner", out of their usual agenda, which was of course to make people obedient to them by keeping them in a state of fear and dependent on the Church to save them.

Which is pretty much how Governments operate now, isn't it.

Edited by Valdemar the Great
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we are all sinners, and we cant stop sinning, its the human nature. But what counts its not if we sin or not but our effort and dedication in avoid the sin.

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we are all sinners, and we cant stop sinning

Speak for yourself!

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Calling ourselves sinners is like calling someone a glutton for eating three meals a day.

Got it? :D

Yeah, I know. The Christian notion of sinner comes from the concept of Original Sin, but somehow it transformed into the judgmental attitude on our behaviors in general.

Trust me, I got it. :tu: I could never understand the very notion of not only the word sin, but what it implies. Half the time, for me and what I believe, there really is no translation to me. And sometimes, when I'm told that we are all sinners, it's almost like I'm being insulted.

we are all sinners, and we cant stop sinning, its the human nature. But what counts its not if we sin or not but our effort and dedication in avoid the sin.

Again, this first part I find it very intrusive in saying I'm a part of this. Especially, if I am at a lost with the word sin, and what it means. There are certain acts, that is considered a sin, but is normal human behavior that needs maturity to control it. There are other things, that the word sin would be labeled, but it's more likely something that is not harming anyone and it's nobody's business worrying about it. The last part of this post, yes, with our effort and dedication we avoid human behaviors that could end up being harmful and bad.
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we are all sinners, and we cant stop sinning, its the human nature. But what counts its not if we sin or not but our effort and dedication in avoid the sin.

Typical ! Why dont your type speak for yourself instead of utilizing psychological projection to batter up what is your belief system and certainly not the belief system of 'we all' ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

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Sin is an invention of priests who need to have a lever to control us, to get us feeling guilty and fearful, and to get us feeling forgiven with their rituals. That a god's death could provide forgiveness for sins is illogical and in fact rather dumb.

Suffering is the evil of the world, not people's bad behavior, and to the extent what we do causes suffering there is no cosmic forgiveness and only what forgiveness we can give ourselves or others give us. One should undo the harm as much as possible and learn what lessons one can and then get on with life -- accepting whatever consequences may follow form what we do.

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Everyone has a duality of "good" and "evil" or positive and negative... but more importantly, if I commit a sin in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

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Everyone has a duality of "good" and "evil" or positive and negative... but more importantly, if I commit a sin in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

i suppose it depends what one was doing in the forest. What sort of sins can you get up to in a forest? By yourself or would there be someone else with you?
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Guest Br Cornelius

"Good and bad" are not the same as "good and evil". Bad and Evil are not equivalent and if you confuse them then you fall into the mental trap of SIN.

Br Cornelius

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Everyone has a duality of "good" and "evil" or positive and negative... but more importantly, if I commit a sin in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

I like this, very catchy.

"Good and bad" are not the same as "good and evil". Bad and Evil are not equivalent and if you confuse them then you fall into the mental trap of SIN.

Br Cornelius

I totally agree. More on the lines on what I think sometimes.
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we are all sinners, and we cant stop sinning, its the human nature. But what counts its not if we sin or not but our effort and dedication in avoid the sin.

2 Corinthians 4:4

Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

----------------------

The father and son of evil trying to tell other people what is evil, red flags should pop up in everyone's mind, yet I seem to be the only one who notices....

http://youtu.be/Rhj2P5MKvgQ

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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2 Corinthians 4:4

Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

----------------------

The father and son of evil trying to tell other people what is evil, red flags should pop up in everyone's mind, yet I seem to be the only one who notices....

http://youtu.be/Rhj2P5MKvgQ

You're not the only one....

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I am not a sinner, because I don't believe in divine laws that comes from a god. Law and morality comes from reason. Even if I transgress a law or moral code, I have not sinned, because for me it is not divine law.

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You have a relationship with god and its between you and him or you and yourself or whatever to figure out what behaviors you need to let go of that may be hurting yourself, others ir the world around you. Yes there is sin and yes there is evil. Repenting is an important part of the spiritual process, which is making the decision to turn away from those behaviors and walking in a new pattern that is beneficial. Other people may have opinions about what we do and think we are wrong for acting or even thinking the way we do, they may call what we do sin... they may be insightful or they may need to repent themselves... that really doesn't matter. Our own soul work is what matters. On a larger scale injustice does exist and I dont think that sitting back and doing nothing about it is wise. So... is there a time and place to judge? That also is something for us to think about and as individuals decide. We are all different and handle these things in our own way. Diversity may be the spice of life but true evilness causes illness and disease.

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i suppose it depends what one was doing in the forest. What sort of sins can you get up to in a forest? By yourself or would there be someone else with you?

Deforestation.jpg

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"Sin" - literally translated it means "to miss the mark", like a bullseye on an archery target. Unless you claim perfection in your life there is not a single person reading this who can claim to have never missed the mark in their life.

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It's just another man-made construct that depends on perspective.

If you are religious, you're a sinner. If not, you're a wrongdoer. If you are a psychopath, then you're just having a good day!

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"Sin" - literally translated it means "to miss the mark", like a bullseye on an archery target. Unless you claim perfection in your life there is not a single person reading this who can claim to have never missed the mark in their life.

This is the first time I have ever had the word Sin used and translated in such a secular manner. If you don't mind me reading it that way, PA. I didn't realize it meant that. Just wondering, how that word derived from to make that word and to mean that. Just curious.

It's just another man-made construct that depends on perspective.

If you are religious, you're a sinner. If not, you're a wrongdoer. If you are a psychopath, then you're just having a good day!

That last part made me LOL. :D
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"Sin" - literally translated it means "to miss the mark", like a bullseye on an archery target. Unless you claim perfection in your life there is not a single person reading this who can claim to have never missed the mark in their life.

Miss what mark? Who decides? With a deity one can say the deity decides, but what if the deity changes its mind? What if the deity commands something evil or is itself evil? If it is impossible for the deity to change its mind or be evil, then good and evil are above that deity and determine what it does. Saying something glib like "the deity could do evil but doesn't" answers nothing. Why doesn't it? If because it knows it would then be evil it is still being controlled by something (good and evil) above it.
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It's just another man-made construct that depends on perspective.

If you are religious, you're a sinner. If not, you're a wrongdoer. If you are a psychopath, then you're just having a good day!

Sin is a concept meaning falling short of God's commands, but if there is no God there are no such commands -- only commands people have invented and put in God's mouth.

The real test of good and bad is whether or not an act causes suffering, not the edict of some deity.

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This is the first time I have ever had the word Sin used and translated in such a secular manner. If you don't mind me reading it that way, PA. I didn't realize it meant that. Just wondering, how that word derived from to make that word and to mean that. Just curious.

I'm not sure the etymology of the word, I was just sharing its literal meaning.

Miss what mark? Who decides? With a deity one can say the deity decides, but what if the deity changes its mind? What if the deity commands something evil or is itself evil? If it is impossible for the deity to change its mind or be evil, then good and evil are above that deity and determine what it does. Saying something glib like "the deity could do evil but doesn't" answers nothing. Why doesn't it? If because it knows it would then be evil it is still being controlled by something (good and evil) above it.

I didn't mention God. Why not let your conscience be your guide? Even by that standard I know you have failed. I have. I've done many things that I look back on and shake my head in sadness that I would do such a thing.

Of course, I could add an arbitrary set of rules and laws, and as a Christian I do hold that there is a universal right and wrong. But since I know you don't hold the same theological view as I, I'm keeping it as irreligious as possible - "god" need not enter the equation for "sin" to still be a matter of missing the mark. Whether that be God's mark, or your mark, or whatever, the fact is that the mark has indeed been missed. Unless you think you are perfect, which some indeed do. That is not my view, I look back on my life and see many mistakes and errors. What you see when you look back on the mistakes you've made is for you to work out.

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