Mythical metal from Atlantis found?

[seeder]

Does metal found in a 2,600-year-old shipwreck prove that Atlantis DID exist? Mythical red alloy said to be from the lost island is discovered off coast of Sicily

Marine archaeologists found 39 ingots of 'orichalcum' off the town of Gela

They were discovered on the sandy sea floor in a wreck under 10ft of water

Experts say they are the mythical metal Plato claimed was from Atlantis

Analysis has shown they are an alloy of copper, zinc, lead, iron and nickel

Shipwreck is a 2,600 year old cargo vessel thought to be from Greece

Researchers believe it was sunk in a storm just 1,000 feet from shore

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2901795/Does-strange-metal-2-600-year-old-shipwreck-prove-Atlantis-DID-exist-Mythical-red-alloy-said-lost-island-discovered-coast-Sicily.html#ixzz3OF4xKLPp

[Hanslune]

A lot of journalist 'reaching' in that article.

Most of the legend of Atlantis comes from the work of the Greek philosopher Plato, who describes how the great nation was submerged beneath the Atlantic Ocean after falling out of favour with the Gods.

'Most' should read 'all'.

One must wonder where these ingot were for 6,400 years.....

Edited January 8, 2015 by Hanslune

[Kenemet]

And all the 'news' on this is a copy of the news article.

But, if we take it seriously, 2,600 years is simply too recent. That would mean that Atlantis existed DURING THE TIME PLATO WAS ALIVE and would have been written about everywhere.

[seeder]

Found another link with some photos

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/rare-orichalcum-metal-shipwreck-legendary-atlantis-020158

[Oniomancer]

Drat, I was hoping they'd found an ancient compilation CD.

That stuff is a damned odd color. Did they clean it? I would expect any cupric alloy exposed that long to be covered in verdigris. Maybe that's what made it so special? A relatively corrosion-proof bronze? Or maybe it's coated with something else.

[Quaentum]

Does metal found in a 2,600-year-old shipwreck prove that Atlantis DID exist? Mythical red alloy said to be from the lost island is discovered off coast of Sicily

Marine archaeologists found 39 ingots of 'orichalcum' off the town of Gela

They were discovered on the sandy sea floor in a wreck under 10ft of water

Experts say they are the mythical metal Plato claimed was from Atlantis

Analysis has shown they are an alloy of copper, zinc, lead, iron and nickel

Shipwreck is a 2,600 year old cargo vessel thought to be from Greece

Researchers believe it was sunk in a storm just 1,000 feet from shore

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz3OF4xKLPp

orichalcum has been described as white or gold in color and also referred to as copper. The combination of those metals found in the alloy in that wreck does not match the description of orichalcum. Since we have no Atlantean orichalcum for comparison, it would be impossible to declare the find as such, even if Atlantis had existed.

[Ever Learning]

Found another link with some photos

http://www.ancient-o...atlantis-020158

thanks for the link with pics, scrolled through to see pics on other article and there were none.

[Kenemet]

Found a better report on the Discovery site: http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/atlantis-legendary-metal-found-in-shipwreck-150106.htm

Now... here's the thing... there's nothing there that says it's actually "orchalum." In fact, they don't actually know what orchalum is (no recipes exist).

According to Enrico Mattievich, a retired professor of physics who taught at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro (UFRJ), the ingots are not properly made from orichalcum. "It appears they are lumps of latone metal, an alloy of copper, zinc and lead," he told Discovery News.

So... not only from the wrong era, but questionable identification.

[questionmark]

Found a better report on the Discovery site: http://news.discover...reck-150106.htm

Now... here's the thing... there's nothing there that says it's actually "orchalum." In fact, they don't actually know what orchalum is (no recipes exist).

So... not only from the wrong era, but questionable identification.

Well, anything else would have been quite a surprise and not precisely reported by the Snail...

[seeder]

That stuff is a damned odd color. Did they clean it? I would expect any cupric alloy exposed that long to be covered in verdigris. Maybe that's what made it so special? A relatively corrosion-proof bronze? Or maybe it's coated with something else.

thanks for the link with pics, scrolled through to see pics on other article and there were none.

As per Oniomancers post, the pics are there

[seeder]

Here, sigh, is a picture for those who havent yet seen it...and heres a 'bit' from wiki

Orichalcum or aurichalcum is a metal mentioned in several ancient writings, including a story of Atlantis in the Critias dialogue, recorded by Plato. According to Critias, orichalcum was considered second only to gold in value, and was found and mined in many parts of Atlantis in ancient times. By the time of Critias, however, it was known only by name. In numismatics, orichalcum is the golden-colored bronze alloy used for the sestertius and dupondius coins.

The Romans transliterated "orichalcum" as "aurichalcum," which was thought to literally mean "gold copper". It is known from the writings of Cicero that the metal they called orichalcum, while it resembled gold in colour, had a much lower value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orichalcum

(I also should point out Im not an Atlantis believer, the post was made for the benefit / interest of those who are)

Edited January 8, 2015 by seeder

[questionmark]

Here, sigh, is a picture for those who havent yet seen it...and heres a 'bit' from wiki

Orichalcum or aurichalcum is a metal mentioned in several ancient writings, including a story of Atlantis in the Critias dialogue, recorded by Plato. According to Critias, orichalcum was considered second only to gold in value, and was found and mined in many parts of Atlantis in ancient times. By the time of Critias, however, it was known only by name. In numismatics, orichalcum is the golden-colored bronze alloy used for the sestertius and dupondius coins.

The Romans transliterated "orichalcum" as "aurichalcum," which was thought to literally mean "gold copper". It is known from the writings of Cicero that the metal they called orichalcum, while it resembled gold in colour, had a much lower value.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Orichalcum

(I also should point out Im not an Atlantis believer, the post was made for the benefit / interest of those who are)

To me that looks like oxidized gold bronze. mostly used (to this day) to make jewelry.

[seeder]

And from the link where the image is found

Orichalcum has variously been held to be a gold-copper alloy, a copper-tin, or copper-zinc brass, or a metal no longer known. However, in Vergil's Aeneid it was mentioned that the breastplate of Turnus was "stiff with gold and white orachalc" and it has been theorized that it is an alloy of gold and silver, though it is not known for certain what orichalcum was.

The breast plate of Turnus was said to be made with gold and white 'orachalc’' 'The Fight between Aeneas and King Turnus' by Giacomo del Po, Italy, Naples, 1652-1726.

Orichalcum is also mentioned in the ‘Antiquities of the Jews’ (1st century AD) - Book VIII, sect. 88 by Josephus, who stated that the vessels in the Temple of Solomon were made of orichalcum (or a bronze that was like gold in beauty).

Today, some scholars suggest that orichalcum is a brass-like alloy, which was made in antiquity the process of cementation, which was achieved through the reaction of zinc ore, charcoal and copper metal in a crucible.

The latest discovery of the orichalcum ingots that had laid for nearly three millennia on the sea floor may finally unravel the mystery of the origin and composition of this enigmatic metal.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/rare-orichalcum-metal-shipwreck-legendary-atlantis-020158#sthash.5tOtxiRx.dpuf

[Harte]

Unless I misremember, Plato stated that the orichalcum of Atlantis was not like their own (of his time) orichalcum.

Oh, no no no!

It was better orichalcum.

Harte

[meryt-tetisheri]

As reported by Livescience, the ignots were "Analyzed with X-ray fluorescence by Dario Panetta, of TQ - Tecnologies for Quality, the 39 ingots turned to be an alloy made with 75-80 percent copper, 15-20 percent zinc and small percentages of nickel, lead and iron."

http://www.livescience.com/49354-atlantis-legendary-metal-found-in-shipwreck.html?adbid=553295113024057346&adbpl=tw&adbpr=15428397&cmpid=514645_20150108_38465767

[lilthor]

Oh, no no no!

It was better orichalcum.

Harte

That's because the Atlanteans knew how to produce the noblest and purest of...ummm...alloys

[Myles]

I just don't get it. Why so many Atlantis threads and so much interest? What evidence is there that the place ever existed besides Plato's stories. There is no denying that Plato was a great storyteller.

[docyabut2]

Plato

The entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel, flashed with the red light of orichalcum.

Edited January 9, 2015 by docyabut2

[jaylemurph]

In an effort to interject some actual histrorical knowledge in this post, I add this:

Gela, Sicily is where the first known (Western) playwright, Aeschylus, died and was buried. According to some stories, he left Athens in a snit when he lost the tragic competition at the City Dionysia to Sophocles. Then an eagle dropped a tortoise on his bald head.

--Jaylemurph

[qxcontinuum]

this might prove that the continent of Atlantis might have been to where today is called the island of snakes from the black sea which waters were previously a small lake invaded after the Dardanelles tide had broke and ocean had made its way through. in the same time there are currently some odd constructions on the island and sank

Edited January 9, 2015 by qxcontinuum

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

this might prove that the continent of Atlantis might have been to where today is called the island of snakes from the black sea which waters were previously a small lake invaded after the Dardanelles tide had broke and ocean had made its way through. in the same time there are currently some odd constructions on the island and sank

[docyabut2]

Plato

The entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel, flashed with the red light of orichalcum.

To add I believe this description was a little exaggerated, and was really as in that one video of Thera, the temples were made of that white clay with sparkles in it that lit up when the sun hit them.

[qxcontinuum]

you obviously have no idea about anything in general but just mock around. do you think Plato or other Greeks that later might have described atlantis traveled to other continents?

[atalante]

To add I believe this description was a little exaggerated, and was really as in that one video of Thera, the temples were made of that white clay with sparkles in it that lit up when the sun hit them.

I agree about the gypsum plaster on walls.

Ancient Egyptians said their city Memphis had "silver walls" ("Ineb hedj"), due to a peculiarity of Egyptian language. Since Athens was one of the major producers of true metallic silver, the classical Athenians would have been naturally curious about this type of Egyptian expression.

When Critias says a city of Atlantis had walls plastered with silver (in a story coming from Egypt), we should treat that statement as meaning the walls of Atlantis were coated with white-colored-plaster.

quote about silver-and-while walls, from: http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/colourwhite.html

The holy city of Memphis was originally known as "Ineb hedj" which is generally translated as "White Walls", and white garments and sandals were worn to holy ceremonies.

The word "hedj" represents both white and silver. Silver was very highly prized in Egypt, and fairly scarce. It was very popular in pharonic jewellery, when it was available, and was known as "white gold" (nub hedj). Silver and gold together represented the moon and sun respectively. White paint was made from chalk or gypsum which were plentiful in Egypt.

endquote

[questionmark]

As reported by Livescience, the ignots were "Analyzed with X-ray fluorescence by Dario Panetta, of TQ - Tecnologies for Quality, the 39 ingots turned to be an alloy made with 75-80 percent copper, 15-20 percent zinc and small percentages of nickel, lead and iron."

http://www.livescien...150108_38465767

which happens to be slightly impure gold bronze...