Obamacare...Back to the Supreme Court!

[+joc]

link

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court was sharply divided Wednesday in the latest challenge to President Barack Obama's health overhaul, this time over the tax subsidies that make insurance affordable for millions of Americans.

The justices aggressively questioned lawyers on both sides of what Justice Elena Kagan called "this never-ending saga," the latest politically charged fight over the Affordable Care Act.

Chief Justice John Roberts said almost nothing in nearly 90 minutes of back-and-forth, and Justice Anthony Kennedy's questions did not make clear how he will come out. Roberts was the decisive vote to uphold the law in 2012.

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37 states have decided not to open their doors to Obamacare by not opening Exchanges and offering subsidies to people to enroll...so...the Federal Government has decided to pay the Subsidies in those states who opted out of having an Exchange. The only problem is...it is against the law. It violates the law in Obamacare! So the whole thing is before the Supreme Court again. If the High Court strikes down the subsidies...what will become of Obamacare. It will no doubt be unfundable and may wither on the vine. If the High Court upholds this 'illegality'...how then do they make it legal so that Obamacare remains ...ahem...Constitutional?

Is Roberts silent because he plans to reverse his 'mistake' the first time around? What do you think?

Apparently ...here we go again. Roberts didn't really say much...Kennedy is the deciding vote...well...Kennedy and Roberts.

I would like to know:

1. Your thoughts on how you think the Supreme Court will decide and why.

2. Your thoughts on what will happen to Obama Care if they strike down the Federal Subsidies.

3. Do you think ObamaCare is Constitutional or not and why?

4. Anything else you want to ad to the conversation.

[XenoFish]

I want it gone. Just gone. I had to enroll because I'd have a tax fine if I didn't. I hate spending money on something I will never use and I never asked for. Plus it was a hell of a major pain to get into it. Stupid waste of time.

[Gunn]

1. Your thoughts on how you think the Supreme Court will decide and why.

2. Your thoughts on what will happen to Obama Care if they strike down the Federal Subsidies.

3. Do you think ObamaCare is Constitutional or not and why?

4. Anything else you want to ad to the conversation.

They'll probably rule against it saying it's unconstitutional, I guess. But I have this suspicious feeling that ruling will do very little in getting rid of the whole thing. I mean it's very hard to get rid of a legislative law wants it's been passed. Kind of like trying to remove cancer.

But in the years to come, the Feds may reform it, reform it and reform it. Whether that's gonna be a good or bad thing I don't know. Well see.

[Stardrive]

List of mistakes.

1. Forcing everyone to enroll.

2. Not allowing the people to vote on the trainwreck.

3. Arrogantly naming the trainwreck after yourself.

4. Forcing employers to comply to new laws regarding the trainwreck.

5. Getting the IRS involved....

I know I missed a few so feel free to add to the list.

But look at the bright side.... each and every year the premium will go up.... just like the deductable and the penalty if you don't enroll!

[+joc]

Yeah, I have insurance through my wife's employer...but the rates have doubled from what she was paying...

Question for you Xenofish: You are paying for something that you didn't even want...and my insurance rates have doubled!

Exactly...how does any of that equal...Affordable?? lol I don't get it. Do you? Could anyone explain to me how any of this BS is 'affordable'?

The Supreme Court didn't ask for this case...and they didn't have to take it. I'm hoping they took it so they could reverse the contemptible mess they started!

[bubblykiss]

I found out I should have been paying $511 a month for insurance due to this......law.

With increasing penalties imposed for not taking part.

I am 100% for socialized medicine. But, I am not on-board for being penalized for not getting expensive privatized, for profit insurance.

[Cassafras]

List of mistakes.

1. Forcing everyone to enroll.

2. Not allowing the people to vote on the trainwreck.

3. Arrogantly naming the trainwreck after yourself.

4. Forcing employers to comply to new laws regarding the trainwreck.

5. Getting the IRS involved....

I know I missed a few so feel free to add to the list.

But look at the bright side.... each and every year the premium will go up.... just like the deductable and the penalty if you don't enroll!

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the term "Obamacare" first used by Romney? I was under the impression Obama took to calling it that only because the right wouldn't stop repeating it.

Ah, yes, here it is http://www.thewire.com/politics/2011/10/who-coined-obamacare/44183/

[Indiogene]

Lemme guess: the US Supreme Court make a ruling: if they said Obamacare or the ACA is illegal or unconstitutional, there goes our right of health care regardless of the ability or not to pay for insurance. The Republican party in congress in only 2 months since they started are getting under my skin and touched my nerves: they rejected a proposal for 12-week paid maternity or paternity leave and they're planning to block Obama's call for a free community college program. Is it because the Republicans morally or politically oppose these things or this is all about "we hate Obama"? The US falls way behind other free or developed nations in providing a properly secure social safety net for its citizens, because we have a culture obsessed with privatization and for-profit business in health care and college education.

[Leonardo]

I found out I should have been paying $511 a month for insurance due to this......law.

With increasing penalties imposed for not taking part.

I am 100% for socialized medicine. But, I am not on-board for being penalized for not getting expensive privatized, for profit insurance.

The issue with the current system is it tries to accommodate socialised healthcare with private medical interests, and so ends up being a 'hack' compromise that does not gain the efficiency a properly tax-funded, government-operated social healthcare system would.

[Thanato]

I really don't understand why you yanks hate the concept of 'socialized healthcare'.

[XenoFish]

It started out as affordable, then over time I started having to pay more and more for it. To make it worse I recently received a letter saying that I wasn't qualified for it, even though I just spent a year paying for it. It took 8 attempts by my wife to enroll. She had to send the same information over and over again. Took me 3 times. Hell I'm self employed and they already take 2/3 of my earned taxes out. So I'm getting butt raped right there as well. Plus they want to fine me for not having this junk in the first place.

Edited March 5, 2015 by XenoFish

[White Crane Feather]

I really don't understand why you yanks hate the concept of 'socialized healthcare'.

It's because we already have it. My aunt barely worked a day in her life enjoyed a life of getting any drugs she wanted from government paid benefits, and died on a dialysis machine. She never was responsible for a dime. And what money she may have paid was already given to her by the governemnt.

Us yankes have enjoyed the finest quality of life and medical care ever seen upon the face of the earth, are responsible for the majority of miricle like medical innovations, have some of the finest hospitals and doctors in the world, Indeed wealthy people in most other countries come here for treatment and to be educated. All of this is because those of us who KNOW BETTER insists on keeping our health care out of the hands of government hands down the most inefficient burocracy in existance. I have not spoken to a doctor yet that has even luke warm feelings for the AFA. It's goin to fail. There are far to many people against it, and even previous supporters are starting to see it for the train wreck it is and always was going to be.

The AFA was never designed to make healthcare affordable. Every single principal in it was always going to make it more expensive. It was designed to make it more afordable for government by forcing people into the system so gov does not have to foot the bill for poor people. so yes. Not only was it not affordable, it put more of a burden on the poor forcing them into a market that was now increasing its prices becaue of the burdens placed upon it. Ironically it was sold as something that the poor and lower class would benefit from, when it really was more of a move i woukd expect out of a nasty conservative shark.--- Find a way to FORCE those lazy bastereds to pay--- but the lefties ate it up because becuse it was mislabeled "Afordable". The moderate right knew its was economically unsound and the far right knew it's a big government power grab. Really it was our current administration pulling the wool over the eyes of its base. How very nasty and manipulative.

Every one associated with raming this down the throats of the country should be sued for how much it has costed us all. Fortunately we are a democracy and when a government gets out of hand, the people will change it.

Edited March 5, 2015 by White Crane Feather

[Gromdor]

1. Your thoughts on how you think the Supreme Court will decide and why.

2. Your thoughts on what will happen to Obama Care if they strike down the Federal Subsidies.

3. Do you think ObamaCare is Constitutional or not and why?

4. Anything else you want to ad to the conversation.

1) Either they vote for it and nothing changes or they vote against it.

2) Premiums double in states like Texas that opted out. Obamacare crumbles. Republican's offer an alternative but because of squabbles between Boehner and far right are unable to pass anything. The stuff they do pass continues the problems we had pre-Obamacare. Poor and middle class get mad about healthcare again. People start eyeing socialized medicine. Everyone on this board no longer cares because we are all old and on single payer anyways (medicare).

3) That choice is up to the nine wise men/women on the supreme court.

4) The worst part is that the mandate will still be there.

[Wickian]

1) Either they vote for it and nothing changes or they vote against it.

2) Premiums double in states like Texas that opted out. Obamacare crumbles. Republican's offer an alternative but because of squabbles between Boehner and far right are unable to pass anything. The stuff they do pass continues the problems we had pre-Obamacare. Poor and middle class get mad about healthcare again. People start eyeing socialized medicine. Everyone on this board no longer cares because we are all old and on single payer anyways (medicare).

3) That choice is up to the nine wise men/women on the supreme court.

4) The worst part is that the mandate will still be there.

That is the only thing that makes me hate Obamacare. The rest is a mix of mild positive/negative feelings depending on what part of the 20,000-page law that was never read before being enacted you ask me about.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Wickian

[Stardrive]

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the term "Obamacare" first used by Romney? I was under the impression Obama took to calling it that only because the right wouldn't stop repeating it.

Ah, yes, here it is http://www.thewire.c...bamacare/44183/

After a bit of looking into that is goes something like this:

What is ObamaCare?: ObamaCare is the unofficial name for The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which was signed into law on March 23, 2010 by President Barack Obama.

The Politics of ObamaCare

President Obama may have signed the Affordable Care Act into law, but the truth is ObamaCare is the result of decades of ideas from both sides of the isle and the health care industry. The idea of an individual mandate was first presented by current opponents of the law the Heritage Foundation in 1989. ObamaCare itself was in fact modeled after “Romney Care”, which is the nickname for the health care reform law implemented in the State of Massachusetts by then Governor Mitt Romney.

Link

It's the usual mess. Pet names, dodge and weave, smoke and mirrors. Good eye Cass, thanks for the heads up.

[+joc]

That is the only thing that makes me hate Obamacare. The rest is a mix of mild positive/negative feelings depending on what part of the 20,000-page law that was never read before being enacted you ask me about.

Well, you know, like Pelosi said: We have to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill. yeah..right!

The problem is that the whole thing is Unconstitutional to begin with. Roberts legislated Federal Law from the bench of the Supreme Court when his job is to determine the Constitutionality of it based on the arguments presented. He 'legitimized' it by saying that the fines weren't a 'penalty' they were taxes. Maybe he will reverse that decision by striking down the unconstitutional and illegal federal subsidies. One can only hope.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

It started out as affordable, then over time I started having to pay more and more for it. To make it worse I recently received a letter saying that I wasn't qualified for it, even though I just spent a year paying for it. It took 8 attempts by my wife to enroll. She had to send the same information over and over again. Took me 3 times. Hell I'm self employed and they already take 2/3 of my earned taxes out. So I'm getting butt raped right there as well. Plus they want to fine me for not having this junk in the first place.

Not qualified please explain. If it was anything other than income this is highly suspect. And income would only be for subsidized.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Aus Der Box Skeptisch

[Careful_perspective]

It's because we already have it. My aunt barely worked a day in her life enjoyed a life of getting any drugs she wanted from government paid benefits, and died on a dialysis machine. She never was responsible for a dime. And what money she may have paid was already given to her by the governemnt.

Us yankes have enjoyed the finest quality of life and medical care ever seen upon the face of the earth, are responsible for the majority of miricle like medical innovations, have some of the finest hospitals and doctors in the world, Indeed wealthy people in most other countries come here for treatment and to be educated. All of this is because those of us who KNOW BETTER insists on keeping our health care out of the hands of government hands down the most inefficient burocracy in existance. I have not spoken to a doctor yet that has even luke warm feelings for the AFA. It's goin to fail. There are far to many people against it, and even previous supporters are starting to see it for the train wreck it is and always was going to be.

The AFA was never designed to make healthcare affordable. Every single principal in it was always going to make it more expensive. It was designed to make it more afordable for government by forcing people into the system so gov does not have to foot the bill for poor people. so yes. Not only was it not affordable, it put more of a burden on the poor forcing them into a market that was now increasing its prices becaue of the burdens placed upon it. Ironically it was sold as something that the poor and lower class would benefit from, when it really was more of a move i woukd expect out of a nasty conservative shark.--- Find a way to FORCE those lazy bastereds to pay--- but the lefties ate it up because becuse it was mislabeled "Afordable". The moderate right knew its was economically unsound and the far right knew it's a big government power grab. Really it was our current administration pulling the wool over the eyes of its base. How very nasty and manipulative.

Every one associated with raming this down the throats of the country should be sued for how much it has costed us all. Fortunately we are a democracy and when a government gets out of hand, the people will change it.

As usual, I love you, and can't agree more. I work in a hospital and have not met a Doctor who likes the affordable care act. My sister, who also works in the medical field also has not heard one Doctor refer to it with warm feelings.

[GlitterRose]

List of mistakes.

1. Forcing everyone to enroll.

2. Not allowing the people to vote on the trainwreck.

3. Arrogantly naming the trainwreck after yourself.

4. Forcing employers to comply to new laws regarding the trainwreck.

5. Getting the IRS involved....

I know I missed a few so feel free to add to the list.

But look at the bright side.... each and every year the premium will go up.... just like the deductable and the penalty if you don't enroll!

Whatever your feelings about the program, Obama didn't name it after himself.

It's actually called the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare is a derogatory term applied to it by people who are against it. It's only derogatory because they really hate Obama.

It's similar to trying to blame the Tea Party for calling themselves (insert derogatory term that won't show up here).

Edited March 5, 2015 by ChaosRose

[GlitterRose]

I really don't understand why you yanks hate the concept of 'socialized healthcare'.

Because there are a lot of people putting huge money into disinfo about it, and people just suck it up.

[Michelle]

I really don't understand why you yanks hate the concept of 'socialized healthcare'.

You would understand if you knew how inefficiently the government runs our military veteran's hospitals and clinics.

[Leonardo]

To qualify my earlier post, in case anyone took it as meaning I was against the idea of socialised healthcare, my criticism of PPACA is in how it was formulated and implemented - as a compromise between different interests - and not because it represents a step towards socialised healthcare.

As much as US citizens might proclaim they "have/had the best healthcare in the world", the facts were that healthcare was unavailable to a significant proportion of the population of the nation. It became a "healthcare system for the privileged", rather than "the best healthcare system".

As for the legality of PPACA, my understanding is it is absolutely legal, your Constitution notwithstanding. What the SC may rule on, is that the govt may not subsidise PPACA in some States if it does not also in all others. Of course, this might mean one of two things - either govt subsidies will be removed or States will not be allowed to "opt out" (i.e. the applicant's circumstances will decide whether subsidies can be applied for, not the political leanings of the State govt.) If the SC preserves the Federal mandate for socialised healthcare, the second option might, after significant legal challenges, become the new reality.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Leonardo

[Gromdor]

It seems veterans are just discarded and forgotten after they leave the service. With all the increased fighting and wars in the last decade we have a considerable increase in the number of veterans but not a matching increase in funding. The government sure loves war but hates to foot the bill it seems.

[Bama13]

Lemme guess: the US Supreme Court make a ruling: if they said Obamacare or the ACA is illegal or unconstitutional, there goes our right of health care regardless of the ability or not to pay for insurance. The Republican party in congress in only 2 months since they started are getting under my skin and touched my nerves: they rejected a proposal for 12-week paid maternity or paternity leave and they're planning to block Obama's call for a free community college program. Is it because the Republicans morally or politically oppose these things or this is all about "we hate Obama"? The US falls way behind other free or developed nations in providing a properly secure social safety net for its citizens, because we have a culture obsessed with privatization and for-profit business in health care and college education.

Or perhaps the Republicans have a better understanding of the US Constitution than the Democrats. The things you listed aren't the purview of the US government. They would be States issues. Of course claiming the Rep's understand or care about the Constitution is ludicrous. Neither party nor the Supreme Court seem to understand/care about the Constitution anymore. Sadly most Americans don't seem to either.

[+joc]

To qualify my earlier post, in case anyone took it as meaning I was against the idea of socialised healthcare, my criticism of PPACA is in how it was formulated and implemented - as a compromise between different interests - and not because it represents a step towards socialised healthcare.

As much as US citizens might proclaim they "have/had the best healthcare in the world", the facts were that healthcare was unavailable to a significant proportion of the population of the nation. It became a "healthcare system for the privileged", rather than "the best healthcare system".

As for the legality of PPACA, my understanding is it is absolutely legal, your Constitution notwithstanding. What the SC may rule on, is that the govt may not subsidise PPACA in some States if it does not also in all others. Of course, this might mean one of two things - either govt subsidies will be removed or States will not be allowed to "opt out". If the SC preserves the Federal mandate for socialised healthcare, the second option might, after significant legal challenges, become the new reality.

That isn't true Leonardo...Health care must be provided for anyone...that's the law. Now, it is true that you must go to an Emergency Room to receive health care if you cannot afford to pay for it with cash or do not have insurance...but Health CARE is available for all. You have the right to receive health care. Health insurance is not a right nor should it be. But The Affordable Care Act... I'm sorry...the incredibly laughable and sickening Affordable Care Act MANDATES that all must purchase health care of face a stiff fine...oops...sorry again...tax...Tax because Justice Roberts said..well you can't fine them...but you could..ahem..cough, cough, hint, hint...TAX them.

But...regardless of who you are or your finances...you cannot be denied Health Care.