keithisco Posted March 18, 2015 #1 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Way to go Roman Catholics - you will not house the homeless in your Church, why should you let them even sleep under your porch? San Francisco Catholic church has reportedly installed a “watering system” that discourages homeless people by drenching them as they sleep. KCBS reported that the “no trespassing” signs outside the primary church for Archdiocese of San Francisco, Saint Mary’s Cathedral, did not mention what would happen to the homeless who tried to sleep under the cover of the building’s doorway. At random times throughout the night, “[w]ater pours from a hole in the ceiling, about 30 feet above, drenching the alcove and anyone in it,” the station noted. “The shower ran for about 75 seconds, every 30 to 60 minutes while we were there, starting before sunset, simultaneously in all four doorways. KCBS witnessed it soak homeless people, and their belongings.” Source (RAWstory):http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/san-francisco-catholic-church-installs-watering-system-to-drench-homeless-people-as-they-sleep/ ...and people wonder why I am an atheist 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bluefinger Posted March 18, 2015 Popular Post #2 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Way to go Roman Catholics - you will not house the homeless in your Church, why should you let them even sleep under your porch? Source (RAWstory):http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/san-francisco-catholic-church-installs-watering-system-to-drench-homeless-people-as-they-sleep/ ...and people wonder why I am an atheist Isn't that the same as saying that other people are responsible for your worldview? I'm a Christian. I'm not going to turn my back on Christ just because other Christians contradict themselves. The true teachings are out there and available for all to see. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DefenceMinisterMishkin Posted March 18, 2015 Popular Post #3 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) At first I was like But then I was like Edited March 18, 2015 by DefenceMinisterMishkin 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithisco Posted March 18, 2015 Author #4 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Isn't that the same as saying that other people are responsible for your worldview? I'm a Christian. I'm not going to turn my back on Christ just because other Christians contradict themselves. The true teachings are out there and available for all to see. Actually NO. My own atheistic beliefs come from many decades of seeing just what Christianity is all about. It is about a Commercial Empire spawned to subjugate the masses into believing that they should believe everything that their Shaman tells them. This subjugation informs them to accept their position in life without question, to not strive too hard to change the lot in life that they were dealt. Your beliefs are your own, and within my own system of acceptance you are entirely permitted to hold such beliefs without fear. The same is not, and never has been true, when faced with Religious controllers that hold governmental positions. As an atheist I am condemned to physically die under Islam (an Abrahamic religion) and not so long ago under Christianity as well. The "True Teachings" are actually humanistic and not religious - Religion does not inform me how to behave in a Society, that comes from my own belief that to cause no intentional harm is actually the "True Belief". Religions have corrupted this abominably to become "believe what I believe or suffer". You tell me which is the better system 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted March 18, 2015 #5 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Well that's just incredibly rude and mean to start with.. Then on top of it, does California not have enough drought and water problems without wasting water in such a fashion? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelnjones Posted March 18, 2015 #6 Share Posted March 18, 2015 work 6 months in SF. The pretend homeless kids are the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefinger Posted March 18, 2015 #7 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Actually NO. My own atheistic beliefs come from many decades of seeing just what Christianity is all about. It is about a Commercial Empire spawned to subjugate the masses into believing that they should believe everything that their Shaman tells them. This subjugation informs them to accept their position in life without question, to not strive too hard to change the lot in life that they were dealt. Actually YES. If you view Christianity as a commercial empire, you are likely referring to the twisted perversion of evangelicalism that inappropriately married Western consumerism. In regards to our 'Shaman', are you talking about Jesus or the Pope? If Jesus, then I'd like to see somebody more worthy of being followed? If you are talking about the Pope, then you are talking a system that did not exist in early Christianity (since churches held councils where bishops settled things democratically). What you have discussed can be applied to either Roman Catholicism or American Evangelicalism. Which is true? Which is accurately described in the Bible? If you said Roman Catholicism, how would you address the fact that the Bible says nothing about the many rituals and doctrines prevalent in Roman Catholic theology? If you say Evangelicalism, what would you say about the disputes between the many denominations regarding doctrinal differences? Also, what would you say to the fact that neither of these were found in the first three centuries of Church history? I think you have reacted to only an interpretation of the Christian religion without looking into the information with an analytical and critical mind. You may have found the motivation to not follow Christianity. But it isn't because you know everything there is to know about it. Your beliefs are your own, and within my own system of acceptance you are entirely permitted to hold such beliefs without fear. The same is not, and never has been true, when faced with Religious controllers that hold governmental positions. As an atheist I am condemned to physically die under Islam (an Abrahamic religion) and not so long ago under Christianity as well. Then your problem is politics, not religion. Let's think about Stalin's atheistic Soviet Union. Christianity was outlawed and Christians were persecuted for believing in a religion (an Abrahamic religion). The exact opposite of what you just described. Religion is often synthesized through culture and made a traditional family value. Politicians in history knew that well and used the cultural values to appeal to the people for support of their regime. I think about the use of the 'religious right' as a source of voters for the Republican party, whereas Christianity denounces the storing up of wealth while there are people that can be helped. So what you see is what William Wilberforce coined 'Cultural Christianity.' Wilberforce, a Christian and British parliamentary member in the late 18th century, petitioned to Parliament to end the slave trade because it was inhumane and ungodly. He thought he could appeal to their Christian faith, only to find that they displayed only Christian values that were filtered through their culture. Sadly, he had to pull a political trick to starve the slave trade slowly because he was unable to convince many members of Parliament that the slave trade should be ended. The "True Teachings" are actually humanistic and not religious - Religion does not inform me how to behave in a Society, that comes from my own belief that to cause no intentional harm is actually the "True Belief". Religions have corrupted this abominably to become "believe what I believe or suffer". I'd disagree. Go to any culture and challenge their beliefs and see what happens. When a particular interpretation of any belief system becomes integrated into a culture, persecution is how those cultures resist the spread of dissension. That is how they maintain unity. Think about what happened when Jesus challenged the Pharisees. Jesus had a great many followers until the Pharisees plotted against him and made up lies about him, all in effort to rally his supporters against Him. They resisted a change that had become integrated into their society. Think about a Star Trek fan club consisting of 15 members. Out of the blue, one of the members start saying that Star Wars is better. He will either gather supporters and change the club to Star Wars fan club or split of the club into factions. So the club takes the action of removing him (persecution) from the club. Put this on the level of society and you can see how it works. It is a natural process used to maintain unity. The same thing happens here in America regarding conservatives and liberals. You tell me which is the better system A system whose core philosophy says, "Do no harm," sounds good. But is it effective? Think about our Western philosophy that supports deviation of established thought. Many people place virtue in challenging the status quo. In doing so, they harm the society, causing dissension and sparking violent revolutions. All in the name of liberty. A "no harm" system sounds good, but it contradicts itself. And what if you implement your system in a country like America. How will you handle the resistance? What if they take up arms and revolt? How will you implement this system then? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted March 18, 2015 #8 Share Posted March 18, 2015 That is a real waste of water. Why not just put up a gate. They could also hand out some tents. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted March 18, 2015 #9 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Say what you will, the RC's have a gift for good public relations. Here's a creative response, though: http://sanfrancisco....water-sleeping/ Edited March 18, 2015 by eight bits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted March 18, 2015 #10 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I feel some pity towards the RC's who built this very expensive "house of God" using other people's money, and now have to protect it for their paying parishoners. I mean, a church is not a charity, you know. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star of the Sea Posted March 18, 2015 #11 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Being Roman Catholic myself.... I wonder what Pope Francis would have to say about this? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenceMinisterMishkin Posted March 18, 2015 #12 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If I was homeless and this happened to me, and the few possessions I had got soaked! I would break into that church and drop a big steamy deuce right on their alter.. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted March 18, 2015 #13 Share Posted March 18, 2015 When I was homeless I got a tent and lived in the woods. I kept away from people. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted March 19, 2015 #14 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Way to go Roman Catholics - you will not house the homeless in your Church, why should you let them even sleep under your porch? Source (RAWstory):http://www.rawstory....-as-they-sleep/ ...and people wonder why I am an atheist There are lots of Catholic homeless shelters. Also, the article doesn't say...but do you think it might be possible that they were in the way of (and perhaps even frightening) parishioners, odiferous, and possibly urinating (or worse) there? I'm just thinking of the homeless people that I have encountered sleeping in doorways in big cities. They smell and they're scary. A lot of them have mental health issues. Sometimes, they are abusive to passers-by, and they often leave drug paraphernalia in their wake. A church probably wouldn't want them on its doorstep in the way of parishioners. Especially, if they actually have homeless shelters they can go to that are funded by said parishioners. Edited March 19, 2015 by ChaosRose 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted March 19, 2015 #15 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Way to go Roman Catholics - you will not house the homeless in your Church, why should you let them even sleep under your porch? Source (RAWstory):http://www.rawstory....-as-they-sleep/ ...and people wonder why I am an atheist I don't wonder why you are an atheist....I wonder why you posted this in this particular forum....it should have been posted in the other forum...read the rules of this forum...in fact...read the rules for every forum because they are not all the same. There are two religious forums...one for skeptics and one to discuss beliefs among believers...this is that one...just sayin'...besides...if you are an atheist it should have nothing to do with the Church or the Pope btw...do you take in homeless people into your house? Why not? Edited March 19, 2015 by joc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSouls7 Posted March 19, 2015 #16 Share Posted March 19, 2015 wow how loving of that Church! If I had a magical church.. i would feed the homeless not soak them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSouls7 Posted March 19, 2015 #17 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Ok children let's settle down no more fighting. I propose a toast ! Let us drink and not fight over religion. I belive in magic.. others believe in dragons... some believe in Gods.. others worship Buddah ... some people worship the devil it does not matter who you worship as long as you have a blissful spiritual experience 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted March 19, 2015 #18 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Ok children let's settle down no more fighting. I propose a toast ! Let us drink and not fight over religion. I belive in magic.. others believe in dragons... some believe in Gods.. others worship Buddah ... some people worship the devil it does not matter who you worship as long as you have a blissful spiritual experience One can speak of hypocrisy in the church...it's full of it...but when one's own cup is full of the same hypocrisy....yeah How many homeless have any of us fed today? How many homeless have any of us taken into our own homes? How many homeless people did we give money to as they held up their sign...or did we just drive by and make excuses for them? Hypocrisy is sickening on every level...but none as much as the guile that comes from the hypocrit's mouth while pointing out another's hypocrisy for the same damn thing. Edited March 19, 2015 by joc 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 19, 2015 #19 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would sleep elsewhere nearby and when I felt like it go on their verandah with soap, a big scrubbing brush and start stripping. I do find it hard to take seriously! At first it reminded me of this; 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Der Box Skeptisch Posted March 19, 2015 #20 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The church decided to act more christian and decided today not to soak the homeless any longer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Der Box Skeptisch Posted March 19, 2015 #21 Share Posted March 19, 2015 http://abc7news.com/religion/sf-church-to-remove-sprinklers-that-drenched-homeless/563354/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenceMinisterMishkin Posted March 19, 2015 #22 Share Posted March 19, 2015 im still I don't understand what he does really, does he have political power to actually make changes? Or is he just a vocal individual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted March 19, 2015 #23 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Keithsco, What would you do if the homeless gathered every night to sleep under your carport...urinating by your backdoor? You okay with that? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikko-kun Posted March 19, 2015 #24 Share Posted March 19, 2015 This is one of those things, called corruption. Stuff that's supposed to be highly spiritual (christianity) gets materialized more and more... I know it's easy to see me as just another leftie hippie when I say this, but homeless ARE people too, like you and me. In fact I'd be homeless too in your definition, but I'm lucky enough to have a job and a tent etc, got no problem unlike the guys and gals living on the streets. Glad they live in a warmer country tho, hope they realise to use that as a free shower or something, wash your physical being on the holy ground. Sounds fitting. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted March 19, 2015 #25 Share Posted March 19, 2015 hope they realise to use that as a free shower or something, wash your physical being on the holy ground. Sounds fitting. That is true, a free shower can be a good thing, when don't have one. It is not easy to keep clean when you are homeless. I'll be honest, I liked living in the tent. I did it for a year and saved up fair amount of cash. Sometimes I would like to trade the house for a truck and a 5th wheel trailer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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