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Can a Atheist believe in Karma?Q:to Atheists


Galahad

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As the title suggests, I'm curious to hear some info from atheists on these points.

1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

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I'm more of an agnostic, but I'll give your questions a go.

1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

I don't think there is necessarily a cutoff point. You could probably find some atheists who believe in karma, but I don't.

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

Inner sense of what's right. A conscience.

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in deity because they haven't personally seen any evidence of it. I imagine seeing one would probably do the trick. Since I've seen entities, I believe they exist. I don't think that any of them were deities, though.

It's not that an atheist "can't" believe in "the spirit realm," or anything else, for that matter. It's that they might require proof before believing.

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

I'm sad.

Edited by ChaosRose
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1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

Karma is not reliant on any religion to exist, it could just be another part of the universe we don't understand yet.

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

I'm more of an Apatheist, but personally I get them partially from how I was raised and partially from selfish empathy. By selfish empathy I mean not doing things that I wouldn't want done to me. Basically "do unto others". It doesn't take belief in a god to take that saying to heart.

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

From an Apatheist's point of view, I simply don't care if one exists. If it does, great, I get to exist after dying. If it doesn't, great, I don't exist and won't have to experience what that feels like. From a logical point of view, there might be deeper layers of the universe where a "spirit" goes after dying that we can't observe or detect yet.

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

I'm still fairly young so I've only had people I wasn't especially close to die. I can't properly answer this yet.

Edited by Wickian
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Karma is not something related to a God, it is more something related to the believe that every action has its reaction... which is perfectly scientific. It can be perverted to superstition though... and that is equally dominant in theists and atheists.

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1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

There is no such thing as an atheist belief system. Atheism is simply the non-belief in a god. There are no rules or regulations. An atheist can believe what they like about anything EXCEPT the existence of a god.

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

Let me turn that on it's head, why are believers so morally bankrupt that they need a book to distinguish what is right and wrong? If the Bible, Quoran or the ho;y book you personally believe in as proven to be false tomorrow would that suddenly make murder, theft, etc okay?

In actual fact I made that statement to be provacative. I don't think believers DO need a book. The reality id we learn our sense of right and wrong from our parents and the society we live in. It's no different for an atheist.

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

Who says they can't. I'm an atheist and I don't believe in a spieit realm. My sister is agnostic leaning towards atheism and she most certainly does.

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

The same way anyone else does. We get upset for our lose. What we don't have is the false hope we will see them again.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf
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1 Who has to have a 'system?' i simply dont believe in any karma.

2 My parents are Baptist but i dont need religion to know right from wrong. i dont believe in a God but im not an idiot.

3 I do believe we a a spiritual creature. I was hit by a car as i was crossing a road. i died several times. No God or Devil came for me, i had only a tremendous sense of peace.

4 The persom has simply moved on to the next adventure.

NDE.doc

Edited by jamesjr191
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1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

(sigh) Did anyone notice that the OP is calling atheism a "belief system"?

Anyways, no one is obligated to accept the idea of souls or karma but on a real-life level, everything has a consequence.

"Equivalent Exchange" if you will. You can rarely obtain anything without giving something in return.

2) if you're an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

I think Waspie_Dwarf summed it up quite succinctly when he said this:

"why are believers so morally bankrupt that they need a book to distinguish what is right and wrong? If the Bible, Quoran or the ho;y book you personally believe in as proven to be false tomorrow would that suddenly make murder, theft, etc okay?"

3) if you're an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

What does that have to do with anything? You do realize that all atheism means is the lack of belief in any deity, don't you?

That being said, some people contemplate the existence of this "spirit realm" regardless of what religion (or lack thereof they harbor).

I don't accept the concept as real as there is no evidence of it aside from dubious and weak anecdotal claims.

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

Ah..the assumption that a non-believer is somehow bereft of emotion because of a lack of indoctrination into a belief system?

Being human and assuming one is not a sociopath, we all feel emotions and will grieve when someone close to us dies.

Beliefs systems have nothing to do with it.

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If karma does exist, then that existence is not dependent on a belief system. Conversely, if it doesn't exist then no amount of believing will change that. I learned about ethics and morality from my parents, and passed it on to my kids, who are passing it on to theirs, all independent of any religious beliefs. Spirit realm, maybe in a non-religious way, because it's like karma, either it exists or it doesn't, and no amount of belief will change that. I still miss my mom & dad, even after all these years, and expect I always will.

Edited by Beany
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The minute a fixed point is held it becomes a belief..( review : fixed point debate)

This is a belief " There is no God!" Or " There is God!". Religion claims the later. Because of this we can have a fixed point to debate the two from. However I'm not looking to debate the two points, but understand some aspects and differences within this belief on some simple points and how they can relate, some do believe in Karma and see it almost scientific and some flat out reject it.. Same can be said for life after death, but the core belief of a Atheist fixed point is " there is no God" ..Karma is a separate belief system " what goes around comes around" , you believe it will? or you believe it won't? ( some do, some don't ) . Eg: " Do you believe in Karma?" Or another example people use when done wrong too.." I hope you believe in Karma"

Question 4 could have been worded better. my apologies.

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Let me turn that on it's head, why are believers so morally bankrupt that they need a book to distinguish what is right and wrong?

Priceless!!!

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I want to also address the fact that you called Atheism a belief system.

It really isn't. It's more like the absence of a belief system.

That said, I have come across people I've referred to as "Born Again Atheists." They're sort of jerks. They tend to attack every belief system they come in contact with, and rudely so.

One example I have is of a family holiday dinner during which point a small child was discussing the loss of a beloved teacher, and her belief that the teacher was now an angel. Of course, this "born again atheist" needed to attack that, and said something like...and how many angels have YOU seen? Then went off on a tirade against religion.

It's not like they're fundamentalists, but they certainly act that way. The fact that anyone believes differently than they do just offends the crap out of them.

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Some people confuse Atheism with Secular Humanism, which most definitely is a belief system.

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Many atheists work from a scientifically based rationalism, and can become aggressive in extending this into areas outside the scope of science. There is even a word for this: Scientism. It is a belief system that says that scientific materialism supersedes all other ways of knowing about all aspects of reality. It is as radical, in its way, as religious fundamentalism. An atheist does not know that there is no God or afterlife, he merely wishes to believe this, and may try to reduce the question to one based on scientific terms.

Edited by bison
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Buddhists may feel free to correct me (although from the standpoint that not all Buddhists believe the same thing). Regarding Buddha, though, I have the impression that it was not that he actively did not believe in a God, but that he did not find the existence of a God to be an essential underpinning to his beliefs. So he wasn't so much an atheist as an apathete. To the existence of a God, anyway.

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I know an atheist who is also a Buddhist and he explains karma like this, karma in Buddhism isn't about what has happens in so called past lives or what is going to happen in the next. Karma is about what you do in this life affects the outcomes in this life. You go out and cause drama, mayhem and pain. Drama, mayhem and pain is what you have, because it is your creation. You create joy, love and good things, you will have joy, love and good things, because you created it. .Most of the time that is how it works. You never know, though, you can step into someone's else bad karma fall out, plus nature is not perfect.

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I think atheists, honestly like any other individual's view of life, will be specific to each person. Atheism isn't a sect of people all believing the same dogma, it's a group of people that are grouped together because their reason has led them to the same conclusion. The best you can do is ask for individuals that identify as atheist to give their individual opinions.

1)what is the cut off point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

I have always had a sort of "unofficial" belief that maybe doing good things can help foster a goodwill among people if nothing else, if not in a more universal way, and I try to be thankful in general, when good things happen. But I don't rely on it and I don't get upset if it doesn't happen. It's more a positive and hopeful attitude than a true belief in "karma". Karma isn't really rational to me.

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

Religious morality is irrational, static and unrealistic. Ethics and moral code come from reason, empathy, social structure and personal view and desires/motivations. You do good and treat others well because you want people to do good and everyone shares in that, and you want others to treat you well. You want an individually-realized community of confident, cooperative individuals that make good decisions.

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

You *can*, of course, it's a matter of individual thought. I don't because the idea of a spirit world and disembodies entities and "getting trapped" and angels and such doesn't make any rational sense to me, in the way I view the world. It just is unrealistic to my worldview. *Something* may be going on in the odd reports, something science can't explain yet, but I'm not going to lean toward "spirit world" without hard compelling proof.

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

I'd express myself in the way I'm accustomed to, and by what type of relationship we had. Some people are very emotional and feel bonds very deeply, some less so. I'm a "less so" person. Though I was sad and for a week or so and cried a few days when my cat died, and I still miss him, I don't feel that sort of empathy to most people, and especially not strangers, but little to even family members, so I don't know. I suspect much like when my mom died, I'll feel sad but not enough to cry or mourn the whole even much. Whatever happens to people when they die, happens. There is no being stuck or luminous cord or staying around to finish incomplete tasks. That person is gone and you have the memory of them and how they changed you and what you learned from them.

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As the title suggests, I'm curious to hear some info from atheists on these points.

1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

There is no "atheist belief system", as atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. That's it; there is no regulatory body, no set of standards that needs to be followed, no codes that must be upheld. There are commonly-held opinions among atheists, such as left-leaning political views, but that's about as close as it gets. Atheists aren't unified, like religions are, and in my experience this fact has been difficult for some religious folks to wrap their heads around. I suspect this is because "the atheists" are so often used as a blanket term for anyone who does not adhere to any religion, which implies that they belong to some other, different group or demographic. In reality, atheists are often as different from each other as they are from religious folks. The only thing that two atheists will have in common is that they do not believe that a god is real.

As such, karma would depend on the person. I'm Canadian, and from the West Coast; nowhere else will you find less religion. Due to this, basically everyone I encounter would, on some level, be considered an atheist, and I know many people who adhere to karma and think it is a real thing. I also know many, myself included, that do not. It has nothing to do with atheism and has everything to do with the individual.

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

It doesn't come from anywhere, it is generated by our society and by ourselves, same as anything else. I don't need a holy book to tell me that rape, or murder, or stealing is wrong; I know they are wrong because I'm not a terrible person. Likewise, I refuse to support robbing rights from women, such as the case of pro-life anti-abortionists, simply because a book claims it is wrong. That is wrong because I know it to be wrong, because taking away freedoms is wrong. Now, this raises the inevitable question about how do I know that my morals are correct, if I don't have a god to base them from? And the answer is: I don't. Morals are entirely subjective, making them altogether meaningless. My morals are not necessarily anyone else's morals, and I understand that.

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

I think an atheist could, in theory. Remember, atheism's only common trait is that atheists don't believe in a deity. That's it, nothing more. So there could be an atheist who does not think a deity is possible, but who accepts the possibility or reality of some kind of spirit world. I think it's somewhat unlikely, since most atheists draw their conclusions based on there being no proof of a god, or there being no logical reason to believe in something that cannot be tested, and as such would have an equally tough time rationalizing a spirit world. But, as I have said, everyone is different, so while it may not be common, it's entirely possible that an atheist believes in spirits and the spirit world.

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

To risk sounding like a broken record, it really depends on the person. Atheists are very different people, and are not unified by a belief system. So how two atheists deal with death could be entirely different. For me, I try to be less sad about the death and more happy that the person lived their life, and how they lived their life. I focus on the good memories, and the positive times, and the good that the person brought into the world. They are dead and gone forever, it is true, but so will we all be someday, and so there is no sense worrying about it. And, in a much more practical sense, they are returning to the Earth, where we all come from and where we all will go. Their body will be fed upon by carrion eaters, which will be eaten by bigger things, and so on and so forth, allowing life to continue. Their energy (heat, electricity, etc) will be expelled and used in something else, due to the law of conservation of mass. Their matter, their self, their body will pass itself on and take on other forms. They are gone, but their physical form will continue to affect the universe until the end of time, because that's how matter works. I focus on that, and it's really not so bad. Their death brings new life in one way or another.

I hope this has answered your questions. If you have more, let us know on here, or PM me.

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1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

Atheism says nothing about Karma.

Personally, I'd love Karma to be true. Genocide tends to suggest otherwise, however.

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

The Ethics bookshop. Moral code's between the Da Vinci Code and...

* Reads hurriedly passed note *

Ah, sorry. I meant Empathy. Which is probably why the Golden rule - do unto others as you would want them to do unto you - is fairly universal.

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

There's no reason why you couldn't, if the evidence pointed that way.

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

We cry, we reminisce, we dispatch winged monkeys to avenge their death, we move on.

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As the title suggests, I'm curious to hear some info from atheists on these points.

1)what is the cut of point in the Atheist belief system regarding Karma?

2) if your an Atheist, where do you get your ethics and moral code from?

3) if your an Atheist, why can't you believe in the spirit realm?. (the Buddhist do)

4) When somebody who is close to you dies ( I can't say passes on) how do you relate to that?

I dont like to call myself an Atheist, or Agnostic, or anyhing really. I'm simpy non-religious. The idea of Karma is generally just about balance, and balance I beleive in because every action has a reaction.

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I know an atheist who is also a Buddhist and he explains karma like this, karma in Buddhism isn't about what has happens in so called past lives or what is going to happen in the next. Karma is about what you do in this life affects the outcomes in this life. You go out and cause drama, mayhem and pain. Drama, mayhem and pain is what you have, because it is your creation. You create joy, love and good things, you will have joy, love and good things, because you created it. .Most of the time that is how it works. You never know, though, you can step into someone's else bad karma fall out, plus nature is not perfect.

I could´t agree more :tu:

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