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Curious about Christian Opinions


ambelamba

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Well, I used to be a Christian myself.

Back then, I wasn't really concerned about OTHER religions and OTHER spirituality. Truth be told, I really didn't have high opinions about them. In fact, for a short period of time I even though that other religions might be from...Satan to distract mankind. And yes, I did believe that other religions were not even worthy of being heard.

That was what I used to be. What about you folks?

Some of the recent discussions made me think about a few things. Also checking out the UM demographics on Alexa also made me curious. First, some Christians feel superior over people with non-Christian spirituality. I do have a few of such people around me in real life. Second, surprising number of UM visitors are from...India, but they are curiously silent on UM forums. I guess a good portion of visitors from India might have something to say about a few things.

Anyway...

There's an old Korean proverb saying, "A frog doesn't remember his time during his tadpole period." Yes, I often have trouble remembering about my former Christian self. I am now trying to remember my past Christian years just to write this topic. And it's not a pleasant experience. I can assert that I did not have much high opinions on non-Christian religions. I did have contempt on Hinduism and even believed that Buddhism is not worthy of exploring.

And now I am curious about what Christian, especially American ones, think of other religions in general...especially something completely non-Abrahamic.

I gotta be honest with ya. Recently I had some unpleasant exchanges with a couple of members. (won't reveal whom) One guy had some uppity attitude on other religions and the other guy seems to think anything but Right-Wing Evangelism comes from Teh Lord of Darkness. And I was shocked by the idea that all other religions were direct or indirect offshoots of Abrahamic faith, which I find it extremely arrogant and incorrect.

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Gosh you are really obsessed with Christianity, aren't you?

Also checking out the UM demographics on Alexa also made me curious. First, some Christians feel superior over people with non-Christian spirituality. I do have a few of such people around me in real life.

Alexa doesn't provide religious statistical data.

Second, surprising number of UM visitors are from...India, but they are curiously silent on UM forums. I guess a good portion of visitors from India might have something to say about a few things.

India also ranks #1 for the geographical origins of spam

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As a Christian, I can only speak for myself.....but I was taught to respect all religions, atheists, or agnostics and that each has equal validity, because it is a personal choice. Because I was raised as a freethinker, I have never felt threatened by other's religions, and therefore have no reason to find fault with their religion.....It doesn't matter to me what religion a person belongs to, or even if they choose not to believe - that's OK too in my book. As long as they don't interfere with my rights as a human being - no problem. :)

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Gosh you are really obsessed with Christianity, aren't you?

Alexa doesn't provide religious statistical data.

India also ranks #1 for the geographical origins of spam

PTSD, I guess. :P

Yeah, I gotta be honest. I think I am obsessed with Christianity because I feel traumatized by it. I've known a few Koreans who served in Korean Marine Corps, and they won't stop talking about their ordeals in the military partially because they are clearly traumatized.

And like I said, some recent brush with other members made me want to ask the questions.

Edited by ambelamba
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PTSD, I guess. :P

Yeah, I gotta be honest. I think I am obsessed with Christianity because I feel traumatized by it.

My heart goes out to you! <<<BIG HUGS>>> :)

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My heart goes out to you! <<<BIG HUGS>>> :)

Thanks. my brother-in-law is a Christian but he is hardly religious at all. And being Chinese, he is easy on other religions. But I have a feeling that people like him don't have that much voices in the church.

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People who were raised in non-religious upbringings are not that traumatized or victimized by Christianity. It's mostly ex-Christians like me. Even Richard Dawkins was a theist.

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Even Richard Dawkins was a theist.

Yes, but Dawkins doesn't claim to have been abused by his elders, and to all appearances, they wore their religion lightly, although perhaps religion was taken more seriously at school. He doesn't discuss being scarred by his upbringing (although that is a common source of complaint among his co-irreligionists - and you are plainly aggrieved about your former involvement with religion).

Fair treatment of children seems to be a special concern of his as an adult, but his objection seems to focus on people in general conflating the idea of "being children of Christian parents" (or whatever religious label) with "being Christian children." I understand the distinction he is making easily enough, but I am unpersuaded that use of a somewhat sloppy but ordinary kind of conventional descriptive formula does much harm. to the children being described that way.

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I hope you don't mind me chiming in. :st (((Also, big hugs to ya (maybe again) ))) Yes, I'm American, but I do believe I'm being correct in saying I was never a Christian. My parents came from Christian families and I think my mom silently believes in hers, but there was no raising us kids in it. So, I feel, growing up secular with no going to places for sermans, and no reading from a holy book, pretty much says, I wasn't raised Christian. The thing is, it seemed that it was part of the environment, and the little kid thought I was a Christian by default. Of course, I was kid, so what did I know. I may have my 'misgivings' too, and have various encounters with some adults and kids through out my life, who also have given me those 'encounters', so I have my 'stanch' on how I look at some individuals in the belief.

Ok, with that said, growing up and coming into my own personality and life, I have learned it's a varying point of view, no matter what belief or non-belief a person is. I have had all walks of life and belief treat me with disregard and disrespect, and I have had all walks of life and belief treat me with respect and cherished my own belief or non-belief system. I do realize, that varying parts of varying beliefs have disregard for others outside of it's view, but I have found from time to time, it's either has a more 'explainable' reason about it in later chapters or paragraphs ( as told to me) or some see it as something to disregard.

So, I see that as something as how each person treats you as opposed their belief system doing that. It could be, growing up secular, has me more open to seeing that. (And I realize that growing up secular has kept myself and my siblings from being drenched in it on a constant basis)

I don't know, if growing up secular, and coming into my own belief system is the reason how I see the beauty in other's beliefs or non-beliefs, or it's coming into my particular belief system by my own experiences with it that puts it apart of the others. So, I think maybe I'm trying to say, it's not really the Christian religion, (or others), but the individual. As a Trek fan, I have had questioning experiences from really die hard Trek fans, and that is my click, so to speak. *shrugs*

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So, I see that as something as how each person treats you as opposed their belief system doing that. It could be, growing up secular, has me more open to seeing that. (And I realize that growing up secular has kept myself and my siblings from being drenched in it on a constant basis)

I don't know, if growing up secular, and coming into my own belief system is the reason how I see the beauty in other's beliefs or non-beliefs, or it's coming into my particular belief system by my own experiences with it that puts it apart of the others. So, I think maybe I'm trying to say, it's not really the Christian religion, (or others), but the individual. As a Trek fan, I have had questioning experiences from really die hard Trek fans, and that is my click, so to speak. *shrugs*

Excellent post, Dooright! :tu: IMO, all religions are equally guilty at pointing their finger at other religions, and fault finding....but after reading your post I think it is not so much the religion but the individual who can either choose to be a "hater" or someone who shows respect and is open-minded. IMO, Hater's will always find something to hate because of an emptiness/ugliness in their soul, or because of personal insecurities which manifest as hatred for those who think differently (Fred Phelps - comes to mind) - its quite sad :( , and I wish they could see the beauty in themselves and in all of us as God's Children.

Edited by KariW
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Well, I used to be a Christian myself.

Back then, I wasn't really concerned about OTHER religions and OTHER spirituality. Truth be told, I really didn't have high opinions about them. In fact, for a short period of time I even though that other religions might be from...Satan to distract mankind. And yes, I did believe that other religions were not even worthy of being heard.

That was what I used to be. What about you folks?

Some of the recent discussions made me think about a few things. Also checking out the UM demographics on Alexa also made me curious. First, some Christians feel superior over people with non-Christian spirituality. I do have a few of such people around me in real life. Second, surprising number of UM visitors are from...India, but they are curiously silent on UM forums. I guess a good portion of visitors from India might have something to say about a few things.

Anyway...

There's an old Korean proverb saying, "A frog doesn't remember his time during his tadpole period." Yes, I often have trouble remembering about my former Christian self. I am now trying to remember my past Christian years just to write this topic. And it's not a pleasant experience. I can assert that I did not have much high opinions on non-Christian religions. I did have contempt on Hinduism and even believed that Buddhism is not worthy of exploring.

And now I am curious about what Christian, especially American ones, think of other religions in general...especially something completely non-Abrahamic.

I gotta be honest with ya. Recently I had some unpleasant exchanges with a couple of members. (won't reveal whom) One guy had some uppity attitude on other religions and the other guy seems to think anything but Right-Wing Evangelism comes from Teh Lord of Darkness. And I was shocked by the idea that all other religions were direct or indirect offshoots of Abrahamic faith, which I find it extremely arrogant and incorrect.

Hey Ambelamba,

I think that Christians must accept that God shrouds Himself in mystery. While we accept a certain explanation of God, often times it is because of our roots. When we find those explanations no longer logical, then we seek more. Often times, Christians explore Christianity deeper. Some, however, look outside.

I think that, if we want them to accept the truth, we have to let them pursue and attain it in a way that they can learn. This is the journey that is full of canyons, rivers, thorn bushes, wild animals, poisonous fruits, hard ground, and unpaved pathways. The journey for truth is dangerous.

But holding people back from taking the journey either stifles their creativity or creates resentment. They have to take that journey and I believe that Christians like myself should support their goals and pray for a safe journey.

Would you mind if I prayed for your journey?

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Hey Ambelamba,

I think that Christians must accept that God shrouds Himself in mystery. While we accept a certain explanation of God, often times it is because of our roots. When we find those explanations no longer logical, then we seek more. Often times, Christians explore Christianity deeper. Some, however, look outside.

I think that, if we want them to accept the truth, we have to let them pursue and attain it in a way that they can learn. This is the journey that is full of canyons, rivers, thorn bushes, wild animals, poisonous fruits, hard ground, and unpaved pathways. The journey for truth is dangerous.

But holding people back from taking the journey either stifles their creativity or creates resentment. They have to take that journey and I believe that Christians like myself should support their goals and pray for a safe journey.

Would you mind if I prayed for your journey?

Beautiful! :tu:

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Hey Ambelamba,

I think that Christians must accept that God shrouds Himself in mystery. While we accept a certain explanation of God, often times it is because of our roots. When we find those explanations no longer logical, then we seek more. Often times, Christians explore Christianity deeper. Some, however, look outside.

I think that, if we want them to accept the truth, we have to let them pursue and attain it in a way that they can learn. This is the journey that is full of canyons, rivers, thorn bushes, wild animals, poisonous fruits, hard ground, and unpaved pathways. The journey for truth is dangerous.

But holding people back from taking the journey either stifles their creativity or creates resentment. They have to take that journey and I believe that Christians like myself should support their goals and pray for a safe journey.

Would you mind if I prayed for your journey?

If God is real then everything is up to him. He has no obligation to listen or answer any prayer whatsoever. That's my interpretation based on my own life.

That's why I call the Bible 'Marketing for God' as a half joke.

Edited by ambelamba
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Well, I used to be a Christian myself.

Back then, I wasn't really concerned about OTHER religions and OTHER spirituality. Truth be told, I really didn't have high opinions about them. In fact, for a short period of time I even though that other religions might be from...Satan to distract mankind. And yes, I did believe that other religions were not even worthy of being heard.

That was what I used to be. What about you folks?

Some of the recent discussions made me think about a few things. Also checking out the UM demographics on Alexa also made me curious. First, some Christians feel superior over people with non-Christian spirituality. I do have a few of such people around me in real life. Second, surprising number of UM visitors are from...India, but they are curiously silent on UM forums. I guess a good portion of visitors from India might have something to say about a few things.

Anyway...

There's an old Korean proverb saying, "A frog doesn't remember his time during his tadpole period." Yes, I often have trouble remembering about my former Christian self. I am now trying to remember my past Christian years just to write this topic. And it's not a pleasant experience. I can assert that I did not have much high opinions on non-Christian religions. I did have contempt on Hinduism and even believed that Buddhism is not worthy of exploring.

And now I am curious about what Christian, especially American ones, think of other religions in general...especially something completely non-Abrahamic.

I gotta be honest with ya. Recently I had some unpleasant exchanges with a couple of members. (won't reveal whom) One guy had some uppity attitude on other religions and the other guy seems to think anything but Right-Wing Evangelism comes from Teh Lord of Darkness. And I was shocked by the idea that all other religions were direct or indirect offshoots of Abrahamic faith, which I find it extremely arrogant and incorrect.

In my opinion there was only mind and chaos. The mind had thoughts creating a void in the chaos into which reality came into existence. We are now left with reality (what we experience in the void) and everything else (the remaining area of chaos outside the void). The void is always the same area as our field of awareness because they are the same thing. I see religion, regardless of what religion that is, as teaching people how to live properly. The logic behind it is systems thinking where how we are sets the fractal pattern for what structures the chaos. So if our patterns of thinking, patterns of behaviour and patterns of treating others are immoral then unfortunately we structure the chaos to give it back to us. We find that what emerges out of the chaos (from the pattern that we created to structure it) causes us problems in our lives.

I see all religions as teaching that although most do not communicate it as directly as I have. Many hide it behind moral stories. But individual religions mean nothing to me. I think they should all be working together and that we should have a single world faith that combines them all. Because they are all the same thing anyway. It is only the fanatics who insist that their version is the right one.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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If God is real then everything is up to him. He has no obligation to listen or answer any prayer whatsoever. That's my interpretation based on my own life.

That's why I call the Bible 'Marketing for God' as a half joke.

Would ever revisit what you considered to be the nature and characteristics of God?

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Excellent post, Dooright! :tu: IMO, all religions are equally guilty at pointing their finger at other religions, and fault finding....but after reading your post I think it is not so much the religion but the individual who can either choose to be a "hater" or someone who shows respect and is open-minded. IMO, Hater's will always find something to hate because of an emptiness/ugliness in their soul, or because of personal insecurities which manifest as hatred for those who think differently (Fred Phelps - comes to mind) - its quite sad :( , and I wish they could see the beauty in themselves and in all of us as God's Children.

Exactly. I also guess, that is the reason of the saying, 'haters gonna hate', came into being. I think most little ones who are raised in some's hatred, will act like they do too and it's all they know, but I often find them in adulthood, go through the motions sometimes. ( and I say sometimes)

Going back to being raised secular, I and my siblings were also raised to be ourselves. Our parents enjoyed their own hobbies and flair for what they do, so each of us recognized our own personalities, and our parents encouraged and gifted us withe material things for that. Seeing the individuality and personal love for things, I learn something new. I hope they learn from me. Just the learning, not the being. I guess, I also learned, that when some are prevented that, there will be a uncenteredness that comes up and makes those who hate themselves hate others. I believe my belief helps me tremendously, and since I have been 'centered' for so many years, I see how others would be better off being themselves, and I just understand and see how their belief centers them. Do I wish for them to have my beliefs? I don't know, maybe, but that wouldn't be right for me to encourage that in others. They have the right to believe what they want. I wonder if it's understandable that my belief allows patience. And I guess, I also see the difference of someone who feels right with their belief, does not push, while others I can tell are uncomfortable in their belief, are the ones who push. I guess to validate the reason for their belief to exist.

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Would ever revisit what you considered to be the nature and characteristics of God?

No.

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No.

what is your understanding about God's nature exactly?

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People who were raised in non-religious upbringings are not that traumatized or victimized by Christianity. It's mostly ex-Christians like me.

Your not alone. My bestfriend was a Jehovah's Witness. Her family disowned her for being a lesbian and leaving the Watchtower Society. She now have a new set of friends. It's called "disfellowshiping". the consequence of her religion took toll on her finances and peace of mind. Horrible Christian cult......... Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons
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what is your understanding about God's nature exactly?

Not much of an understanding. Just speculations and contemplation.

Probably somewhere between deism and pantheism, even if I decide to acknowledge the existence of God. I don't see God as a person, but as a concept and a phenomenon.

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Exactly. I also guess, that is the reason of the saying, 'haters gonna hate', came into being. I think most little ones who are raised in some's hatred, will act like they do too and it's all they know, but I often find them in adulthood, go through the motions sometimes. ( and I say sometimes)

Going back to being raised secular, I and my siblings were also raised to be ourselves. Our parents enjoyed their own hobbies and flair for what they do, so each of us recognized our own personalities, and our parents encouraged and gifted us withe material things for that. Seeing the individuality and personal love for things, I learn something new. I hope they learn from me. Just the learning, not the being. I guess, I also learned, that when some are prevented that, there will be a uncenteredness that comes up and makes those who hate themselves hate others. I believe my belief helps me tremendously, and since I have been 'centered' for so many years, I see how others would be better off being themselves, and I just understand and see how their belief centers them. Do I wish for them to have my beliefs? I don't know, maybe, but that wouldn't be right for me to encourage that in others. They have the right to believe what they want. I wonder if it's understandable that my belief allows patience. And I guess, I also see the difference of someone who feels right with their belief, does not push, while others I can tell are uncomfortable in their belief, are the ones who push. I guess to validate the reason for their belief to exist.

What an insightful observation! I do believe that both of us were raised under very similar philosophies, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you speak of being centered, which I refer to as a "Love of Self" - not in a narcissistic way but an awareness of my individuality and ability to "Think for Myself" There is no need to make myself feel superior, by attempting to make others feel inferior. Like you, I don't believe I have any reason to force others to accept my "philosophy of life".

I also think you are correct in your observations of pushers- vs. non-pushers. Pushers have a need to continually validate their "world views / egos", while those who do no push their views on others, have no real for validation and are relatively unthreatened by different points of view. You summed it up perfectly in your last sentence.

Another benefit of being raised with "centeredness" (Your term is so much better than mine), is that it gives you the awareness that you can accomplish anything with a lot of patience and tenacity. I think my father knew how important this was for me, because things never came easy for me (Flunked Kindergarten, and had to repeat 1st Grade) - I know .... Hee Hee! Who Flunks Kindergarten? (LOL!) :D

He knew, I needed to have confidence in myself to be able to reach certain goals even though it took me 100 tries to accomplish certain things. Failure was never something to be ashamed of, but quitting and giving up on oneself was. I have an unending amount of patience & tenacity, because I have had to - just to achieve educational goals that come so easily to others.. And this patience is so ingrained in my personality, that I am naturally patient and forgiving with others.

Because of centeredness, I think an individual ( not being on the defensive in respect to their own "World Views"), has the tremendous capacity to learn from others without damaging their own egos. This was a point that my father constantly hammered into me - You can always learn something from others. My father, who coached basketball used this analogy:

To better oneself in your athletic skills, compete against someone who can beat you consistently- study and learn from them - adopt their techniques - and through this competitiveness, your skills will eventually increase to the point where you can hold your own against them. Those who learn from others grow, while those who adopt the attitude, that they "know it all" reach a point very early on where their growth, as individuals capable of learning new things, is stunted, which is very sad.

You and your siblings were so lucky to have parents, that fostered your individuality, as was I. Please forgive my ignorance, as I have seen the term "secular" used by many in this forum, and I had to look up the definition, not being familiar with the term. I want to totally understand where you are coming from - By secular, do you mean raised with a "world view" that is not based on religion? :)

Edited by KariW
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As a Christian, I can only speak for myself.....but I was taught to respect all religions, atheists, or agnostics and that each has equal validity, because it is a personal choice. Because I was raised as a freethinker, I have never felt threatened by other's religions, and therefore have no reason to find fault with their religion.....It doesn't matter to me what religion a person belongs to, or even if they choose not to believe - that's OK too in my book. As long as they don't interfere with my rights as a human being - no problem. :)

That's the point of view of us all until someone of another religion tries to persuade us of their promises of a different salvation.

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People who were raised in non-religious upbringings are not that traumatized or victimized by Christianity. It's mostly ex-Christians like me. Even Richard Dawkins was a theist.

The reality is, exceedingly few Christians are traumatized or victimized by Christianity. And it's not as though Christianity, per se, is a homogenous entity. The term describes a wide variety of religious faiths with underlying connections but different traditions and practices. For example I was raised Roman Catholic. I no longer practice that faith, but not because of any trauma I may have suffered. I suffered none. I just grew out of it when I reached adulthood. I would call myself more spiritual than religious, but my mom was a devout Roman Catholic who instilled in me consideration for others, charity, and a respect for all religions.

I am genuinely sorry that you suffered in Christianity, but please remember that all Christians do not deserve or require condemnation because of your unfortunate experience (anymore than would, say, Jews or Muslims or Hindus, et cetera).

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Well, I used to be a Christian myself.

Hi kmt,

On this one I'm fully with you. Used to be one myself, but what worried me most was not other religions as such, but why God would allow ANYONE to suffer in Hell forever? From an academic point there are also a numerous problems with the Christian faith, including the pre-election, etc, etc.

The turning point came when I sat in church one day and the minister referred to the virgin birth of Christ as predicted by Isaiah (Is. 7:14). I read the NIV comment on this crucial verse, which states that the word translated as “virgin” may refer to a young woman betrothed to Isaiah. I read through the entire passage and realised that “the sign of Immanuel” described in this chapter of Isaiah had everything to do with Isaiah and his son and absolutely nothing to do with a future Christ. Troubled, I began searching the Old Testament for other prophecies about the virgin birth of Christ. I could not find any. It would seem that Jesus Christ had nothing to do with Jehovah. If Christ was not born of a virgin, he was not the Son of God, and Christianity would pop like a balloon. [From the Preface to my book Barbelo - The Story of Jesus Christ].

It was only then that I became interested in the origins of the beliefs in "god", which led to the two books I have published as well as my theories on Atlantis, etc. The vast majority of Christians believe 'like children', not wanting to know about or discuss anything that might put their faith in a bad light. For instance, in Barbelo I list a host of very ugly rumours about and accusations levelled against Christ and his disciples - how could this be, if Christ had been the saintly figure the Church would like us to believe?

You may ask those you to referred to, to comment on John Collier's statement:

"An omnipotent Deity who sentences even the vilest of his creatures to eternal torture is infinitely more cruel than the cruellest man."

When you look at Christianity from a neutral perspective, it is anything but a religion of love.

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What an insightful observation! I do believe that both of us were raised under very similar philosophies, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you speak of being centered, which I refer to as a "Love of Self" - not in a narcissistic way but an awareness of my individuality and ability to "Think for Myself" There is no need to make myself feel superior, by attempting to make others feel inferior. Like you, I don't believe I have any reason to force others to accept my "philosophy of life".

I also think you are correct in your observations of pushers- vs. non-pushers. Pushers have a need to continually validate their "world views / egos", while those who do no push their views on others, have no real for validation and are relatively unthreatened by different points of view. You summed it up perfectly in your last sentence.

Aww, thank you. :blush::)
Another benefit of being raised with "centeredness" (Your term is so much better than mine), is that it gives you the awareness that you can accomplish anything with a lot of patience and tenacity. I think my father knew how important this was for me, because things never came easy for me (Flunked Kindergarten, and had to repeat 1st Grade) - I know .... Hee Hee! Who Flunks Kindergarten? (LOL!) :D
Uhhhhhh, I actually had to repeat kindergarten myself! No kidding! (I had a speech impediment that wasn't understood at the time. Well, that on top of the fact, I just didn't speak!) When you say we are somewhat alike, you weren't kidding!!!! :o;)
He knew, I needed to have confidence in myself to be able to reach certain goals even though it took me 100 tries to accomplish certain things. Failure was never something to be ashamed of, but quitting and giving up on oneself was. I have an unending amount of patience & tenacity, because I have had to - just to achieve educational goals that come so easily to others.. And this patience is so ingrained in my personality, that I am naturally patient and forgiving with others.

Because of centeredness, I think an individual ( not being on the defensive in respect to their own "World Views"), has the tremendous capacity to learn from others without damaging their own egos. This was a point that my father constantly hammered into me - You can always learn something from others. My father, who coached basketball used this analogy:

To better oneself in your athletic skills, compete against someone who can beat you consistently- study and learn from them - adopt their techniques - and through this competitiveness, your skills will eventually increase to the point where you can hold your own against them. Those who learn from others grow, while those who adopt the attitude, that they "know it all" reach a point very early on where their growth, as individuals capable of learning new things, is stunted, which is very sad.

You and your siblings were so lucky to have parents, that fostered your individuality, as was I. Please forgive my ignorance, as I have seen the term "secular" used by many in this forum, and I had to look up the definition, not being familiar with the term. I want to totally understand where you are coming from - By secular, do you mean raised with a "world view" that is not based on religion? :)

Well, that is my way of saying, with no religion. By the time I came along, there was no church and after some years, there was no bible in the house. So, there was no religion what so ever practiced. No, that wouldn't be true, because my mother practiced her Christian belief, with weekly pamplets and such. But she never pushed onto us. She told me, when we all reached the age of eighteen it was up to us, in fact it was her wish, we choose what we believed in and practiced. I think that probably helped centered all of us. I'm not saying this is how it should be, but I feel no regrets on how I was raised, if is understandable. :)
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